Sophy Ridge on Sunday Interview with Anna Soubry, The Independent Group

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SKY NEWS, SOPHY RIDGE ON SUNDAY

SOPHY RIDGE: Now the Brexit delay means the UK will probably take part in the European elections, elections which could see a breakthrough for some of Britain’s newer political parties. One of those is Change UK or the Independent Group and their Brexit spokesperson, Anna Soubry, will be on the programme very shortly. We can have a quick look at some of the latest polling, when it comes to how people are intending to vote when it comes to the EU parliament elections. You can see there Labour are topping the polls on 24%, this is according to YouGov polling done on 10th and 11th April. In second place it is the Conservatives on 16% and then the Brexit Party, that’s Nigel Farage’s new party on 15% followed by UKIP on 14%, the Lib Dems on 8, the Greens on 8 and Change UK on 7%. Let’s talk about these findings with Anna Soubry, who joins us now in the studio, thank you very much for being with us this morning.

ANNA SOUBRY: It is an absolute pleasure but it is early.

SR: Well you’re here now. What is slightly less good news is the polling for Change UK when it comes to the European elections, just 7%, are you a bit disappointed?

ANNA SOUBRY: Well just two things. First of all of course we are not even a political party so for Change UK already to resonate with people, especially as I think a lot of people know us as TIG so I think that was my second point, I think we are known more as the Tiggers then Change UK so I’d like to see some polling with TIG. Because when we launched or came together, our polling was amazing, something like 11, 12%.

SR: So is it hard to keep the momentum going?

ANNA SOUBRY: Not really. Look, the whole of Brexit, the Brexit thing of course dominates everything and of course certain parts of Brexit are going to be absolutely the headline story, understandably, but I think there is a solid consistency there for us and, as I say, we’re not even a party. And I think that as, and I hope we’ll be seen as a political party, which is obviously our intention and we will field candidates across the whole of Great Britain, I think people will …

SR: And in the local elections as well?

ANNA SOUBRY: No, it’s far too late for the local elections, far, far, far too late. The nominations closed about two or three weeks ago, two weeks ago, but in any event we are not in a position to be able to do that but the European Parliament elections, you bet, and I think this will be a real opportunity for people to get to know more about us. People already know a lot about us, they know that we believe in that second referendum, a People’s Vote, so we want that re-vote. I think people know that we want us to remain in the EU, the best deal that our country has and of course, we’re a party of change and reform, not just in the UK but across the way that we do politics in the European Union as well and we’ve got to be part, if we’re successful, of that reform that needs to take place in the European Union.

SR: When you look at the polling and you seem to still be muddling along with the Lib Dems, the Green Party, do you think actually, strategically in the long term you are going to have to start to do a few more alliances, working together with other parties like the Lib Dems?

ANNA SOUBRY: Well we do anyway.

SR: Although at the beginning you were very clear in saying you are not going to be associated with them.

ANNA SOUBRY: We are a political, we will be a political party in our own right and we very much want people to come and join us, to give their support to us and be part of Change UK, be part of the Independent Group and in terms of working together in Parliament, that’s been one of the features of Brexit, that’s actually what brought people like me and Chuka Umunna and Chris Leslie and others together, was our work on Brexit, our work for a People’s Vote, our concerns about the future of our country and we already work with the Lib Dems, with Plaid Cymru, with Greens, the SNP, in any event on Brexit but I very much hope people will come and join us because we need that change in British politics and I think that includes all the political parties, not just the main two political parties.

SR: Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party unveiled quite a high profile supporter this week in the sister of Jacob Rees-Mogg …

ANNA SOUBRY: Well nobody else … I’m not being rude but I just don’t think most people have heard of Annunziata.

SR: Have you got anyone up your sleeve joining what you hope will be a political party?

ANNA SOUBRY: All I can say is that genuinely we are overwhelmed by the number of people who have applied to stand as a Member of Change UK.

SR: Anyone we might have heard of?

ANNA SOUBRY: I’d love to but I can’t because actually it would be breaching their confidence because we are going through what is actually a huge selection procedure but we are talking about people from all backgrounds, right across the country from people who have never been involved in politics before but have joined us because of their concerns about Brexit and their support for a People’s Vote and they know the best deal we have is the current deal with the Union, right the way through to some names that I went ‘My goodness me, he or she wants to stand for …’

SR: Oh come on!

ANNA SOUBRY: No, I can’t, it would genuinely be a breach of their confidence but if some of those people are successful, I can assure you will know who they are but genuinely, it’s amazing.

SR: Well we’ll have to wait to see if we all think it’s amazing.

ANNA SOUBRY: Our nominations close tomorrow morning at ten o’clock but you can only – and this is really important, people do have a passion for remaining in the European Union, a lot of people …

SR: A lot of people have a passion for leaving as well.

ANNA SOUBRY: Yes, but it’s changing, Sophy. I was out in Nottingham yesterday, as I often do, with the People’s Vote and what was really striking is that people are beginning to change their minds.

SR: Do you think that’s right, because part of me thinks that people are actually becoming more entrenched in their positions, whether it’s on the remain side, wanting to revoke, wanting to stay in or on the leave side, because they actually know they want to leave with no deal.

ANNA SOUBRY: I don’t disagree with you, you’re right, there is an entrenchment at those edges but what’s really striking are those people, are the Remainers who say they accept the referendum result and don’t want another re-vote on it, they are changing their minds but strikingly older people, and I met a number yesterday in Nottingham, who said ‘Do you know what, I voted Leave’ and they told me why and then they said, ‘I’ve changed my mind because I’ve listened to my children and my grandchildren’ and it’s about their future and whichever way you cut Brexit, we are going to be damaging their future. So there is a movement and that’s why I hope we do get that People’s Vote, confirmatory, call it what you will …

SR: Call it a Second Referendum.

ANNA SOUBRY: Call it what you want, we all know what it means. It’s that chance for people to change their minds now they know what Brexit looks like and also it gives young people who bear the brunt of Brexit to have their say and their voice but people want to be MEPs but they’ve got to realise it’s a proper full-time commitment if you get elected because they could be there for five years, they could be there for five weeks, five months, who knows.

SR: It is a couple of months now since you left the Conservative party, do you feel any pangs of regret, just a little bit?

ANNA SOUBRY: I have to say I have never felt so sure about anything and almost every day, especially when I sit in Parliament and I look at the benches opposite – and of course it is an entirely different view – and frankly I listen to people like Mark Francoise who is now seen as being the voice of Conservatism, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Boris Johnson and the rest of them and I’m afraid the Tory party is the Brexit party. One nation Tories like me can’t stay and it’s leaning to the right and if someone like Boris Johnson or Dominic Raab becomes the next leader, the next Prime Minister, it will absolutely be that real understanding that it’s gone towards the more extremes of the right.

SR: I have spoken to a lot of Conservative MPs over the last couple of months about the Tiggers, if you like, and a lot of them say Sarah Wollaston, Heidi Allen, they were never real Conservatives but Anna Soubry, she’s a proper Tory. Don’t you feel that?

ANNA SOUBRY: I’m me and my values and my principles have pretty much not changed over 40 years, it’s the Tory party that’s changed.

SR: So you think it’s the party that’s changed?

ANNA SOUBRY: Oh yes, hugely, absolutely hugely and look at it now and look at how it was in 2010 to 2015. That government which I served in, 2010 to 2015, we were in a coalition with the Lib Dems. Now the Conservative party is in hock to the DUP, I think that says everything about the shift. And can I just say about Heidi and Sarah, that’s quite – while it’s not for me to speak on their behalf, actually Heidi and Sarah are people who, like me, had done other things before they came into Parliament but Sarah in particular was selected in an open primary, Heidi who read Astro-Physics, has run a family business, has bucket loads to offer and was embraced by the Conservative party. If the Tories can’t win and keep hold of people like that then they have absolutely lost that centre ground and that’s our point, it’s the party that’s changed not us as individuals and people like me have worked with people like Chukka and Chris Leslie and Luciana Berger over Brexit in particular, yes, I feel with my values and my principles I feel much more at home with people like Chukka and Chris Leslie and the others than I have felt in the Tory party, especially since 2016 when Theresa May got elected as Prime Minister and she made that terrible speech, in my opinion, talking about citizens of the world are citizens of nowhere, dismissing Remainers as the liberal metropolitan elite which was nonsense and then calling the EU citizens queue jumpers – it’s the party that’s changed, not me.

SR: Anna Soubry, thank you very much indeed for being on the programme.