Sophy Ridge on Sunday Interview with James Cleverly Conservative Deputy Chair

Sunday 31 March 2019

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SKY NEWS, SOPHY RIDGE ON SUNDAY

SOPHY RIDGE: Now there is increasing chatter in Westminster that a general election might be the only way to break the Brexit deadlock so is the Conservative party gearing up for a snap poll. Well let’s try and find out from the Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party, James Cleverly. So you’re the man with the answers, is there going to be an election?

JAMES CLEVERLY: I hope not, I don't think an election would solve anything because time is of the essence. We have got Brexit to deliver, we don’t want to add any more unnecessary delay, there has been too much of that already. We need to focus on delivering Brexit so that we can get on with delivering good government for the British people and a general election would only delay that, the outcome would be uncertain, so none of the things that people tell us they want which is Brexit delivered and some certainty for both themselves, businesses, none of those things would be helped by a general election.

SR: The thing is though that some people argue that the only way to deliver Brexit is to get a new parliament. You can look at what Theresa May herself said on Friday, she said: “I fear that we are reaching the limits of this process in this House.” I mean that sounds like an [inaudible] doesn’t it but she is so frustrated that the MPs in the House aren’t able to come to any decision.

JAMES CLEVERLY: Well you can read a lot of things into that. My interpretation of what she meant by that – and I’ve not discussed it directly but my interpretation of what she meant from that is that the April 12th deadline is pretty much upon us. The House said, the House of Commons said it wanted to take control, it wanted to be the decision making body, it wanted to come up with the future options and so the indicative vote process was to enable the House to do that and what the House spectacularly failed to do was come up with anything. So all the various options that were put before us were all voted down and I think what the Prime Minister was saying there was look, this is time to focus, time to grow up, time to get read. We’ve got to deliver Brexit, there is a way of doing that that’s signed off by the EU, that is deliverable, it does work, it’s the Withdrawal Agreement and that’s what we should focus on.

SR: Are you preparing for a general election then?

JAMES CLEVERLY: We are not planning for a general election. The Conservative party …

SR: Are you preparing though?

JAMES CLEVERLY: Look, I’ll be completely straight with you. We have got a minority government in a turbulent time so just in terms of sensible pragmatic planning, but we are not seeking or preparing in that sort of sense that I think you mean, for a general election. What the government, what the party, what MPs are focused on for the most part and should be focused on, is delivering Brexit because without that all the other conversations are displacement activity, is belly-button gazing. We’ve got a job of work to do and we really should be doing it.

SR: Should Theresa May lead you into the next election?

JAMES CLEVERLY: Well she said she doesn’t intend to and …

SR: She said she wouldn’t lead you into the 2022 election, she hasn’t really been that specific if there is a snap election. As you say it’s a minority government and quite a fragile situation.

JAMES CLEVERLY: So the Conservative leadership process takes a period of time and again, that process would delay uncertainty at exactly the point of time that we need neither. The Prime Minister has been consistent, she’s been clear that her focus is on delivering Brexit …

SR: But if there is a snap election, if it takes you by surprise – and as you say, we’re being realistic about the landscape – Theresa May could lead you into that election is what you’re saying?

JAMES CLEVERLY: Well that is the inevitable possibility but – and I wrote about this in the Express today – the British people keep telling me, I was in my constituency on Saturday before I came back to London, the number of people coming up to me and saying, oh James please, just get on with it. I keep saying to them, look, we’re trying, I promise you we’re trying. There is a way of doing it and it is there on the table. At the vote on Friday an increasing number of MPs, Conservative MPs who had been opposed to the Withdrawal Agreement, said look, do you know what, I get it, I get it, this really is the only way to get us out of the European Union.

SR: So with that in mind, are you going to be bringing the vote back next week for another go, fourth time lucky?

JAMES CLEVERLY: Well I’m not part of that decision making process, mine is a party decision rather than a government decision but the simple truth of the matter is …

SR: Do you think it should?

JAMES CLEVERLY: Again, and I made this point when speaking to people over the weekend, there are now a really limited range of options. April 12th is a point at which if we haven’t done anything else, we leave without an agreement, without a deal or we sign off on an agreement, and that’s the one that’s in front of us, or we run the risk of Brexit not happening at all and I think that would be an absolutely catastrophic failure. The collapse in confidence from the British electors, the undermining of democracy I think would be a catastrophically bad move so for me, I have always been willing to accept leaving without a deal – it’s not a preferred option even for me and I’m a staunch Brexiteer – so for me the answer is really, really simple, it’s the Withdrawal Agreement.

SR: Who would you blame – and you were talking there about it being catastrophic if it doesn’t happen – who would you blame? Would you blame fellow Brexiteers like yourself in the Conservative party who felt unable to hold their noses and vote for the Withdrawal Agreement?

JAMES CLEVERLY: Well many people who had that position have changed their position.

SR: Not enough though.

JAMES CLEVERLY: Not enough. I would say this wouldn’t I, but the people I am particularly frustrated with are Labour Members of Parliament because they said over and over again that their criticism of this was about the future relationship, the political declaration, they kept talking about how they wanted a customs union, Emily Thornberry earlier on this morning said that she wanted a customs union. You can’t even have those discussions, you can’t even start those discussions until you have formally severed the relationship with the EU. That is done through the Withdrawal Agreement so voting down the mechanism …

SR: You wouldn’t need Labour MPs though if you had enough Conservatives to back the deal.

JAMES CLEVERLY: This is true, this is true and the Conservatives who are opposing it are opposing it for passionately held and honourable reasons and they have been consistent. I disagree in their interpretation of this but they have been consistent. The people who are really inconsistent are members of the Labour party who have said publicly they don’t have a problem with the Withdrawal Agreement, their concern is about the political declaration and the future agreement and then when given the opportunity to vote just on the Withdrawal Agreement they made up some hocus pocus excuse for not doing so and have failed to deliver Brexit. Those Labour MPs, despite what they promised, failed to deliver Brexit and I think they should be held accountable for that.

SR: Okay, now I’m keen to talk to you about stop and search as well while we’ve got you on the programme and knife crime is really something that is causing a lot of alarm around the country at the minute. The Home Secretary announced that he is going to be relaxing police powers to try to use more stop and search, is that something you welcome?

JAMES CLEVERLY: Well the Section 60 powers are an important part of the arsenal of police powers. When I was in charge of the youth portfolio in City Hall when I was a London Assembly member, we inherited a knife crime epidemic from the former Labour Mayor of London and enhancing stop and search was an important part but on its own it’s not enough. You need to do that, you do need to do that in the moment to reduce imminent risk but you also have to work upstream. This is what we did when we were running London successfully back when it had a decent Mayor and we used stop and search, well the police used stop and search but there was also a whole load of work around keeping young people out of trouble, uniformed youth groups and …

SR: You know it is a blunt instrument for the police, you know black men for example are nine times more likely to be stopped and searched.

JAMES CLEVERLY: On its own it can be but as part of a wider package of interventions it is an important part. If it is used in exclusion to other things it could be problematic but it isn’t so the Home Office as well as these stop and search powers are also looking at making it harder for young people to get hold of knives, it’s also doing a whole load of work with other government departments working quite closely with communities and local government to make sure there are other diversionary activities. It is part – an important part but only part of an overall package of responses.

SR: Okay, James Cleverly, thank you very much indeed.