Sophy Ridge on Sunday Interview with NIcky Morgan MP

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SKY NEWS, SOPHY RIDGE ON SUNDAY

SOPHY RIDGE: From the conversations that I’ve been having at Westminster, lots of MPs believe that the only way to break the Parliamentary deadlock is through a softer form of Brexit, a customs union staying close to the single market and Nicky Morgan is one of those MPs. She joins us now from Loughborough, good morning to you, thank you for being on the programme.

NICKY MORGAN: Good morning.

SR: It seems as if MPs are increasingly flexing their parliamentary muscles, lots of talks about more amendments next week, potentially suspending the Article 50 process, trying to block no-deal. Can you just explain what’s happening and do you think MPs will be able to take no-deal off the table?

NICKY MORGAN: Well I think you’re right to say that what happens when you have a hung parliament is that power does pass from government, the executive, to Parliament and that’s what we are seeing play out. I think there is a frustration in Parliament that we haven’t had a chance until last Tuesday to vote draft agreement and then potentially on other options too, so the Prime Minister tomorrow is going to, as I understand it, make a statement, to put down a motion that will say there will be further debates about next steps on January 29th. That motion can be amended and there are a variety of different groups of MPs who will put motions down or amendments to that motion down but I think it is very clear that there is no majority in Parliament for a no-deal outcome and so that is going to be one of the critical things. I think it is important to pull some of these things apart and so that’s the first thing and I am working with a cross-party group of MPs – Yvette Cooper, Hilary Benn but also Nick Boles and Oliver Letwin from my own party as well as Norman Lamb – to put down a piece of legislation because it is right that if you want to stop a no-deal, stop the UK crashing out on the 29th March this year, then the law does need to be changed so our very short Bill will say that if the Prime Minister can’t get an agreement approved by the House of Commons by the end of February, then the government will need to ask Brussels or to apply and say we want to extend Article 50, we have put in a suggested date but of course all of this is debatable and amendable by the House of Commons. Then there are other MPs, other groups who are seeking to do we think something similar, we haven’t seen them, all those amendments or things that are going to be put down but you are right, so there is that process. Then of course there is a process, how do you build a cross-party consensus towards an agreement that can get a majority in the House of Commons and that’s where ideas about whether it is Norway Plus or something else, you say about the single market and the customs union, that’s where that comes in.

SR: I am quite fascinated by the concept of all these MPs from different parties working together. How do you do it, how do you have those conversations? Is there a WhatsApp group?

NICKY MORGAN: [Laughs] I think WhatsApp has signed up a lot of MPs! I think over the course of the last two and a half years there have been people working on cross party lines I think for the first time so Brexit started off as being pretty party political, it was the Conservative government that had granted the referendum, it was the Conservative government that was going to put in place a way of delivering on the result but after the 2017 general election, the result there, it became very clear that of course people were going to need to work on cross party lines in order to find an agreement. It is interesting that many of us who are working cross party are Chairs of Select Committees which always operate on a cross party basis, try to operate by unanimity so we have seen how cross party working can provide positive results and a way forward so I think that’s why we have seen Chairs of Select Committees in that process. Actually I think that Brexit shouldn’t be a party political issue because we’ve all got in our parties people who voted Leave, people who voted Remain and many people represent constituencies where the results were pretty close or they may have a particular view but the constituency voted the other way and that’s what I think all MPs are trying to find a way forward to get to a place where most people want there to be an agreement in place for leaving but of course there are a group of people in the House of Commons who don’t want that to happen, they would like to have another vote across the country where Remain would be an option and that’s not something that I agree with.

SR: We spoke a bit about the amendments that you’re working on. I just want to try and pin you down on the Dominic Grieve amendment that has caused a lot of concern actually and I know some MPs this morning, there has been quite a lot of debate about it, this idea that there could be legislation to suspend Article 50. Is that something that you would support?

NICKY MORGAN: Well as I say, the Bill that I put my name to does say that if the government can’t get an agreement in place then the Minister would have to apply, to say to Brussels right, we need to suspend Article 50 for a period of time, so that we can build a consensus and get ourselves more prepared for Brexit. So that’s something that I will be supporting. What I don’t know is whether Dominic’s amendment goes further than that and there is talk obviously, I think Ken Clarke and others have said that Article 50 should be revoked and, look, I am a former Remain campaigner but where I do agree with Dom Raab, and I heard part of his interview, is I think people do want us to get on with this. We have had a vote and actually it is important that the UK Is going to leave the EU, we are going to leave the political institutions but there are ways of doing that in an orderly fashion to mitigate the economic damage and that’s what I am interested in doing.

SR: It feels as if Parliament is really trying to wrestle control of this process, it’s almost as if there are two governments going on in Parliament at the minute and some of the things that are being proposed – this ideas for example that MPs can introduce motions that would take precedent over government business, for some people this must sound a bit like a coup. Is it?

NICKY MORGAN: Well I think [if it’s a coup] it starts with a whole bunch of democratically elected Members of Parliament and I mean it is unprecedented for backbenchers business to take precedence over government business but it is very much confined to one particular issue – Brexit – and it is to my immense regret that unfortunately Brexit appears to be the only thing that we’re able to discuss at the moment. Of course it’s important but I think many people watching this are desperate for their politicians and government to talk about other issues and frankly I think the MPs are also very keen to talk about other issues, many of which led to the Brexit result in 2016 anyway. So no, I think what this is is MPs saying on this particular issue we think there is a different way forward and we particularly want to make sure there is not a no-deal outcome to Brexit but the government will carry on, the government will carry on governing and we will have Ministers in other departments doing other things so no, I think to describe it as a coup is overblown.

SR: We have talked about that process, I am keen to talk about the kind of Brexit that you are supporting, this idea of staying close to the single market in essentially a customs union. Let’s get real, there is no way the EU would allow that without the UK also expecting free movement of people, that is right isn’t it, let’s just admit it?

NICKY MORGAN: Well I think look, Common Market 2.0 which is the option that I am supporting, if it will be part of EFTA, part of the single market, then yes, freedom of movement comes with that but there are mechanisms, there are ways to apply for there to be control and actually I think that the British public have got a far more nuanced understanding and interest in immigration than people give them credit for.

SR: So Theresa May read it wrong?

NICKY MORGAN: I think the Prime Minister, given her Home Secretary background, has always said that freedom of movement is important for what people want. There is no doubt that people voted, some people, in 2016 to leave the EU because of concerns around immigration but there are lots and lots of controls on immigration, who’s coming here, how long they are coming here for, why they’re coming here and actually UK governments over the years could have exercised much, much more than they chose to and actually Sajid Javid’s plans on immigration begin to take the UK in that direction. If you go to an EU country and someone is going to live there for six months, a couple of years, whatever, people have to register, they have to tell the local, whether it is police forces or others, that they are there and everything else. We don’t do nearly enough of that in the UK and that’s the feedback that I get from my constituents. It’s about controls, about knowing who’s here, it’s not about saying we don’t want you from overseas to come and work in our NHS or work in our universities. I am sitting here in Loughborough, a big international university, big manufacturers nearby who rely on people coming, bringing their talents from overseas, paying taxes here. That’s not I think something that people say we must stop all of that but people do want there to be control but we could still be part of this Common Market 2.0 arrangement.

SR: Now this week Theresa May suffered an historic defeat, the worst that any sitting government has ever experienced, quite astonishing really and yet, unless I’ve missed something, she doesn’t seem to have given any ground at all when it comes to her plans for Brexit. Are you worried that the Prime Minister isn’t listening?

NICKY MORGAN: Well I think the Prime Minister is listening. I was one of the MPs who went to see her on Thursday and there were meetings held with Conservative MPs, opposition MPs and I think the Prime Minister realises that the government is in an incredibly difficult position. I voted for the Prime Minister’s agreement on Tuesday and I am stunned by people who have campaigned, friends of mine who have campaigned for decades to get the UK out of the EU, who then didn’t vote for the agreement on Tuesday. But we are where we are and I think trying to find a way forward, whether it is finding a cross-party consensus in Parliament, whether it is seeing whether the EU is able to give any more ground – which seems unlikely but look, I am not privy to those negotiations. It is a very difficult decision for the Prime Minister to make and we are going to find out more I think this week and certainly next week about the Prime Minister’s Plan B and I think we will all have to make decisions as MPs as what is in the best interest because ultimately what people really want is stability and certainty, to know where they are going to go, what’s going to happen on the 29th March.

SR: You haven’t always had the easiest relationship with Theresa May, I think one of the first acts she did when she became Prime Minister was to sack you and yet you are one of the few MPs to stand up in the House of Commons and support some of what she has been trying to do. Do you think that Theresa May has suffered from a failure to make enough friends when she was all powerful because now is the time when she really needs them?

NICKY MORGAN: [Laughs] Look, I think perhaps there is a fair point in there but equally I think however many friends a Prime Minister has, when people have a difficulty that any Prime Minister is proposing, unfortunately friendship doesn’t always count and people will go with what they think is right and I have no doubt that’s how MPs are voting but ultimately I think also we need to have a consensus, we need to move forward. Again I think Dom made a point about moving forward and after March that is important and I hope that the Prime Minister – actually I have seen her and she is open to discussions, open to explain the deal and everything else but there is a lot more talking that is going to be needed to get this over the line.

SR: Okay, more talking about Brexit. I am sure all of our viewers are very, very excited at that prospect. Nicky Morgan, thank you very much.

NICKY MORGAN: Thank you.