Sophy Ridge on Sunday Interview with Richard Burgon MP Shadow Justice Secretary

Sunday 4 November 2018

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SKY NEWS, SOPHY RIDGE ON SUNDAY

SOPHY RIDGE: Now we’re talking a lot this morning about the very sad news of the death of the former Head of the Civil Service, Sir Jeremy Heywood and we can speak to our next guest now, we’re joined from Leeds by Labour’s Shadow Justice Secretary, Richard Burgon, thank you for being with us. First Mr Burgon, your reaction to the news of Sir Jeremy Heywood’s death.

RICHARD BURGON: It’s very sad, very sad news and I’d like to join the Prime Minister in her tribute to Sir Jeremy both in terms of his work and in terms of his life, he really did epitomise the best of public service, working at the top of the civil service and making such a great contribution. He will be sadly missed by so many colleagues in the civil service and of course our thoughts are with his friends and family at this very, very difficult time and it is sad that we don’t have him still here as a person but also sad that we don’t have him here to work on important projects going forward.

SR: Yes, those important projects that you talk of, it seems that he worked for as long as possible on Brexit, a very big challenge for the civil servants and the government as a whole. There are reports this morning that Theresa May is effectively preparing to try and make the whole of the UK join in a customs union with the European Union after Brexit, temporary perhaps but still in order to try and avoid that hard border in Northern Ireland. Surely this is something that you must welcome because it’s pretty close to Labour’s policy isn’t it?

RICHARD BURGON: Well Labour has led the way in terms of our demands for a common sense respecting of the referendum result and delivering a Brexit that works in the interests of jobs, consumer protections, environmental protections and businesses but there is a lot of speculation, there has been a kind of running commentary on what the Prime Minister may or may not come back with. I’d like to see what she actually comes back with, I know things are being briefed. I think Downing Street has referred to it as speculation at this stage but of course one of Labour’s policies is that we should have a customs union with the European Union in order to protect the economic progress of our country in order to protect jobs and businesses.

SR: So if the withdrawal agreement was for the UK to stay in a customs union or an effective customs union with the EU, would you vote for it?

RICHARD BURGON: Well Kier Starmer and the Labour party have set out our six tests that we’ll apply to whatever deal Theresa May comes back with but things are very, very uncertain because she is not only negotiating with the European Union, she is actually negotiating with her Cabinet and with some extreme people on our backbenches and indeed in the Cabinet so I don’t want to guess what the Prime Minister is going to come back with. Our tests are clear, if it doesn’t meet our tests then we’ll be voting against any deal but of course it’s still possible that Theresa May, encouraged by some of the right wingers in her party, might actually come back with a no deal scenario but let’s see what she actually comes back with because there has been a lot of speculation and a lot of false stories throughout this whole negotiation process actually.

SR: Okay, so for our viewers, what are the six tests then that Labour say the PM must meet?

RICHARD BURGON: Well the six tests are that we would want a customs union with the European Union, that we’d want the equivalent benefits to the single market, that we want the Northern Ireland border issue to be maintained in a way that will actually protect the Good Friday Agreement and we’d want no diminution in worker’s rights, in environmental protections and in consumers rights and that it protects jobs, removes the need for tariffs and protects the economy in the best way possible. If those tests aren’t met then we’ve been clear we’d be voting against it but the pressure now is on the Prime Minister to come back with something that can bring the country together and actually deliver a Brexit that respects the referendum but also doesn’t turn Britain into a tax haven off the shores of Europe. We don’t want deregulation in environmental, consumer or worker’s right or anything else, we don’t want it to be smokescreen for a Tory vision of a Victorian Britain of the kind that Jacob Rees-Mogg, Boris Johnson and others would like to see.

SR: I’m a little bit confused because that sounds slightly different to the tests that I have – a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU, the exact same benefits, fair management of migration, defending rights and protections, protecting national security and delivering for regions and nations in the UK.

RICHARD BURGON: These are all the key things that we’re talking about. Obviously we’ve talked about our immigration policy, that after we leave the European Union we’ll have a new immigration policy, a fair and reasonably managed immigration policy. Diane Abbott talked the other day in her speech about how we still want to be working cross-border when it comes to tackling crime and terrorism because we need to maintain the benefits, for example, of the European Arrest Warrant but we want those benefits and if those benefits aren’t kept then we’d be voting against the deal and that’s what people need to know. As it stands, I can’t envisage a situation where Theresa May is going to manage to negotiate with her Cabinet, with her backbenchers and with the European Union to deliver a deal which protects those things and meets those tests but let’s see what happens.

SR: I was hoping you might be able to clear something up for me after the budget as well because of course Philip Hammond announced cuts to income tax, raising of the personal allowance so does Labour think that is a good idea or a bad idea?

RICHARD BURGON: Well we put down an amendment that was consistent with our general election manifesto at the last general election which will increase taxes to the top 5% of earners. I signed that amendment and Labour voted for that amendment so the people getting paid over £80,000 a year would pay more tax. We were clear in our manifesto that those that get paid less than £80,000 a year – in other words, 95% of people – shouldn’t be paying increased tax under a Labour government and that’s why we voted the way we did and that’s why we put forward the amendment to the budget last week.

SR: Why didn’t you oppose tax cuts that would benefit those top earners that you were just talking about?

RICHARD BURGON: We didn’t oppose tax cuts which actually in a budget which delivered so little to people on middle and low incomes, would actually give people on middle and low incomes some extra money in their pocket, which in the context of a budget which delivered for them we abstained on that but we made opposition very clear by putting down our own amendment which consistent with Labour’s manifesto, consistent with our values to the many not the few, said that the taxes that we would increase would be on the top 5% of earners, those who earn over £80,000 a year and that was very clear. We set that out and we also obviously, as you know, would be cracking down on tax avoidance and tax evasion by the super-rich which is being carried out on an industrial scale.

SR: Okay and just finally, Sarah Thornton who is the Chair of the National Police Chiefs Council, said on Wednesday that because of budget squeezes the police need to focus on core policing, they don’t have time effectively to look at crimes such as misogyny. What’s your view on that, is she right?

RICHARD BURGON: That’s very, very troubling. I mean the police have been saying that since the Conservative government cut police numbers by 21,000 it’s been harder and harder to do their valuable job. Violent crime is up, reoffending is up and the statistics that have come out the other day that show that serious repeat offences of the most serious kind have gone up and the amount of people being, despite crime going up the amount of people being charged and convicted is going down so it’s very, very concerning. The police should have the resources in order to tackle crime at all levels and actually things like misogyny and racism when it’s in the form of verbal abuse are part of a trajectory which leads towards actually violent crime as well, these things can’t be separated. It was very concerning what the police say and that’s why Labour would start off undoing the damage that the Conservatives have caused by recruiting 10,000 extra police to have extra police officers in every community because actually whether it’s terrorism or anti-social behaviour, community policing is very important in terms of the intelligence gathering and the community relations to tackle those important issues.

SR: Okay, Richard Burgon, thank you very much.

RICHARD BURGON: Thank you very much.