Sophy Ridge on Sunday Interview with Stella Creasy Labour MP

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SOPHY RIDGE ON SUNDAY, SKY NEWS

SOPHY RIDGE: Let’s go to Westminster to speak to someone who may have a thing to say about that interview, Labour’s Stella Creasy. Hello and thanks for being with us today.

STELLA CREASY: Thanks Sophie.

SR: Now you just listened to Arlene Foster, the DUP Leader, and among other things she said that she found it distasteful to see people dancing in the streets after the abortion referendum in Ireland, what’s your take on that? I’m guessing it’s probably quite different.

STELLA CREASY: I’m sorry to hear her say that. I would suggest that somebody who intends to go and march with the Orange Order in Fife at the end of this month may want to reflect on the value of making comments about other people’s protests and decision to join people. Look, the result in Ireland was overwhelming, it was overwhelming in terms of the impact it will have on the lives of thousands of women in Ireland, 2.5 million women who now have the right not to be forced to continue an unwanted pregnancy but it also reflects the importance of listening to communities. They had to have a referendum there because they had a constitutional bar on being able to provide abortion and we will have to see what legislation the Irish government now come up with but clearly that will make a big impact on people’s lives and I just suggest to Arlene Foster that criticising people for feeling that that is a powerful statement of equality and liberation isn’t the best way forward if she wants to be somebody who is seen to be listening to her community.

SR: Now you’re taking matters into your own hands here in Westminster, you’re planning this cross-party coalition to try and move to the decriminalisation of abortion in Northern Ireland, just explain what it is you’re trying to do.

STELLA CREASY: Yes, actually what we’re talking about is the decriminalisation of abortion for the United Kingdom. This is a United Kingdom piece of legislation that we need to deal with called The Offences Against the Person Act that was written 150 years ago in 1861 and makes abortion a criminal act, it is actually a criminal act across the whole of the United Kingdom. Simply 50 years ago we had legislation that gave exemptions in England and Wales, that puts abortion into the same category of criminal acts as rape, as child stealing and as blowing somebody up with gunpowder. Now I just think in 2018 nobody in the United Kingdom can support that but what that means in Northern Ireland is that if you are raped and you become pregnant as a result of that and seek a termination, you would face a stronger prison sentence than the person who attacked you. That cannot be sustainable and indeed I think that’s why I the majority of the Northern Irish opinion polls show us that the public there would like to see change, they’d like to see the criminal law being taken out of this and medical law being put in place. They can’t do that, Arlene Foster cannot write laws on abortion in the Stormont Assembly if it gets reconstituted unless we repeal this piece of UK legislation so actually what we’re doing is being respectful of devolution but also requiring them to take action on this because by removing that piece of legislation there will be a gap.

SR: You see you’re say you’re being respectful of devolution, I think Arlene Foster would probably take issue with that. The thing about the referendum in Ireland is it was women who overwhelmingly voted, well everyone obviously but women who overwhelmingly voted to decriminalise abortion, they made the decision for themselves. So why should it be that politicians in Westminster decide what’s right for people in Northern Ireland?

STELLA CREASY: Well at the moment the only woman with any choice over abortion in Northern Ireland is Arlene Foster and she can’t …

SR: But she is elected in Northern Ireland.

STELLA CREASY: But she just said in your interview that she doesn’t want to see people in Northern Ireland being treated differently to people in the United Kingdom but by repealing this piece of legislation we will not write abortion law in Northern Ireland, we will simply leave a gap that the civil servants and indeed the Assembly will need to fill. Also, frankly, I don’t see why Arlene Foster’s views should prevent repeal of legislation that also affects my constituents. When I hear the DUP saying that we shouldn’t be talking about this in the United Kingdom parliament, I hear them telling them that they have more control over what happens to my constituents than we do about what happens in Northern Ireland. This is about removing a piece of legislation rather than imposing a particular law on Northern Ireland but they do need to have this debate. The vast majority of the Northern Irish public want a medical rather than criminal approach to abortion and I think for Arlene Foster to be the only person making the choice on that isn’t very democratic at all.

SR: At the same time though, let’s be real, your constituents aren’t being jailed for having abortions are they? In reality people can get abortions in the rest of the United Kingdom, really the people this will affect are women in Northern Ireland.

STELLA CREASY: What my constituents have to do at the moment is go through a very long process involving two doctors and actually since 1967 and the Abortion Act, pills have been invented that allow an abortion, Misoprostol, so there is a case also for decriminalisation here so that we can have a process that recognises that technology has moved on across the United Kingdom. At the moment, three women a day from Northern Ireland either travel or take those pills and they buy them illegally and women in England and Wales are doing this as well online, that’s actually not very safe and in theory they could face a criminal prosecution. Look, this legislation was written 150 years ago, the abortion rules that we have in England and Wales were written 50 years ago, it is absolutely right that the UK Parliament asks, do we have modern 21st century abortion laws? That it would make an impact for every UK citizen including those in Northern Ireland simply makes the case for each nation then being able to describe what a modern abortion law looks like.

SR: Now I can’t let you go without asking you a quick question on Brexit, you always have to ask every politician about Brexit. I was talking to Barry Gardiner earlier on the show and he was defending Labour’s position on staying in a customs union with the EU but leaving the single market, saying that would allow goods to be traded easily with the European Union. Are you comfortable with Labour’s position on Brexit?

STELLA CREASY: Look, I’ve been a member of the Labour party for 25 years, I’ve been involved in campaigns within the Labour movement because we are a democratic member led movement. One of my predecessors was a man called Clem Atlee and he said that the members are what make it the Labour party and sometimes we’ve won arguments and sometimes we’ve lost them. There is clearly a difference of opinion about what our approach to Brexit should be but we are also a democratic movement so I think it’s right that people have their say, stand up and say what they think is right. I have campaigned, I stood at the election and said very clearly that I was going to fight to stay in the single market because I could not see a better option not just for my constituents but for my country. I also happen to think that the final deal on the decision about whether that is the best thing for Britain shouldn’t be my choice alone. There is a debate to be had and I hope Barry will engage with that in the spirit that all of us are, that we are a political movement, we should be able to talk about these things, take a decision together, look at the facts, look at the evidence. I don't think anybody can look at Brexit in the last two years and think it’s going swimmingly so it’s right we say to our members, it’s right that we say to the country, is this the best deal that meets our values, is this going to be a way that we tackle austerity, is this a way we are going to bring prosperity? I don't think a hard Brexit will do that, I certainly think staying in the customs union and the single market is a better way towards that but do you know what, I am also a democrat and I think the public should have their say too.

SR: Okay, Stella Creasy, thanks very much.