Sophy Ridge on Sunday Interview with Stephen Barclay Brexit Secretary

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SKY NEWS, SOPHY RIDGE ON SUNDAY

SOPHY RIDGE: Well in just over 100 days the UK will face the next Brexit deadline and both candidates have said they want to see a new deal done in that time but is it possible? Well joining us now is the Brexit Secretary, Stephen Barclay, thank you for being on the show this morning Mr Barclay.

STEPHEN BARCLAY: Good morning.

SR: So have you picked up any shift in the EU’s position particularly Ireland’s position recently?

STEPHEN BARCLAY: Well there’s a positive turn struck by Simon Coveney in the press this morning. Clearly the EU recognise it’s in their interest to avoid a no deal, a no deal outcome will be very damaging across the EU and so both sides want to secure a deal and it will be the task of the new Prime Minister to have those discussions. I think the EU recognise it is in both sides interests to get to that outcome.

SR: It has been reported that you told the EU’s Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, five times in a recent meeting that the Withdrawal Agreement is dead. Now I’m sure you won’t comment on private meetings but in your view is the Withdrawal Agreement dead?

STEPHEN BARCLAY: Well I certainly wouldn’t need to make the same point five times in the same meeting so I think that gives you a clue but what I said is exactly what I said to the Select Committee. No one on the Select Committee, which is a cross party committee of Members of Parliament, disagreed which is that the current text of the Withdrawal Agreement if nothing at all is changed, then I didn’t see that going through the House of Commons, it’s been rejected three times. Since then we’ve had the European elections where if anything the House has further polarised and so what I was very openly and honestly sharing with them was an update on the political scene in London and I think if the text isn’t changed in any way it is difficult to envisage how that will go through the House of Commons.

SR: So if the Withdrawal Agreement is dead, if the EU are saying that it’s no open for renegotiation, then it does look as if we could be heading towards a no deal Brexit if Boris Johnson becomes Prime Minister and is determined to take the UK out by that deadline in October. Now that is something the Chancellor says will cost the UK £90 billion, is that a price worth paying?

STEPHEN BARCLAY: Well the figure you quote relates to a Treasury forecast for 2035, a full fifteen years after the end of the implementation period and it also assumes that the government would take absolutely no action in response to a no deal. Well as the Chancellor knows, and I know, there are teams currently working in the Treasury on exactly what options we will take if we were in the position of a no deal outcome so those teams wouldn’t be working in the way they are if the intention of the government was not to take action. So there is a forecast there, there are a load of forecasts that have been put out in recent weeks. The reality is that a no deal would be disruptive but we have got over 300 teams across Whitehall working on preparations whilst it remains our priority to secure a deal if the EU are willing to move on that.

SR: But it’s not just any forecast though is it? It’s across the government forecast including by your department that you actually presented to Parliament and was published by your department in November. Surely you …

STEPHEN BARCLAY: No, it wasn’t presented by myself and what I’m saying is that it’s a forecast that’s based on no action being taken by government when I think that everyone, including the Chancellor, would accept that in the event of no deal then of course the government would take action and it’s also a forecast to 2035 which I think your viewers will know, any forecast 15 years after the implementation period can only be treated with a certain degree of questioning. So there are limits to what can be forecast, we know that from each budget and the issue is what action would the government take in the event of no deal when across government we’re preparing extremely seriously to ensure that the new Prime Minister has the options he needs.

SR: Now you of course are looking after preparations for no deal, that is something that we know Boris Johnson would like to see a big advertising campaign around to make sure that businesses are prepared. In your view, are businesses doing enough to make sure they can mitigate any problems associated with a no deal Brexit?

STEPHEN BARCLAY: Well I think what Boris absolutely gets is there is a difference between the preparation of many large firms and the current position of many other small and medium sized firms. I think just as government has over 300 teams working on this, a lot of large firms have been working for several years to prepare and in sectors such as the pharmaceutical sector, a huge amount of work has been done. I think where things are not as advanced is in the small business sector where many small businesses hear Members of Parliament, hear the message coming out of Parliament where people say that no deal will be taken off the table and therefore assume that they don’t need to prepare and that’s the particular area where we will need to focus our communications moving forward.

SR: What kind of things should businesses be doing? Should they be looking at stockpiling for example?

STEPHEN BARCLAY: Well you only need to stockpile if there are issues for example at the short straits between Dover and Calais and the French are putting… well, we expect some disruption but far less than was envisaged in March so the forecasts have improved considerably, so it’s a mix between stockpiling, flow and whatever other actions we can take. That’s exactly the sort of things we’ve been looking at in our preparations, having a lot of round tables, a lot of meetings with industry in order to get that right. But there’ll be a mix between stockpiling but also in terms of how we get goods through the container ports, what action we take at Dover-Calais, the French authorities have also taken action. But Sophy, this isn’t just a UK problem. Around 40% of Ireland’s exports go through Dover so it’s not just UK goods that would be stuck at Dover, it would also be the goods of EU27 member states and in particular the Irish would be acutely affected if there were delays there. So this is a shared challenge and that’s why it is both sides interests to come to sensible early reciprocal arrangements to keep the flow of goods moving through the short straits.

SR: According to the Sunday Times, if there is a no deal then medicines would be prioritised travelling through Dover followed by medical equipment and then fresh food, is that right?

STEPHEN BARCLAY: Yes, we’ve said that repeatedly, I don’t think that’s a revelation. Category one goods first and foremost start with medicines, there’ll be some Defra products as well. A huge amount of work has gone in via the Department of Health and Social Care on that, working with the pharmaceutical industry and we’re in very good shape in terms of the work that’s gone on particularly within that. That’s also why we put in place and had originally a Ministerial statement in Parliament a couple of weeks ago, a framework to enable us to procure additional capacity should that be necessary in the autumn. We’re acutely aware that it is essential that we maintain the flow of medicines through the short straits but again there is actually more medicines that go out to Europe from the UK than come in to from Europe into the UK so this is again a shared issue that’s in both sides interests to get right.

SR: And how should we as individuals be preparing for the thought of a no deal Brexit? Are we safe to book holidays in Europe in the autumn?

STEPHEN BARCLAY: The Commission have made clear that they see continuity. You don’t need me to tell you, Sophy, that for the hoteliers, for the tourist trade in many, many member states that this is an issue that they want to maintain the continuity approach and this is exactly the sort of areas we’ve been discussing. There’s already continuity arrangements for example on flights but also this is where we need to have done things like data because in terms of data around holidays, it’s in the European firms interests to have arrangements to enable data to be shared as well so many of these issues are reciprocal, they affect the EU27 member states as well as the UK and it’s important that whilst continuing to work towards a deal that as part of our no deal preparation we get sensible reciprocal arrangements in place because it’s in the EU’s interest just as it is in the UK’s interest.

SR: But that doesn’t always means it happens does it? If both sides want something it doesn’t mean it will happen.

STEPHEN BARCLAY: Well a lot of it has. Let me give you an example, just last week I was signing a deal with the Swiss authorities in terms of workers being able to move from the UK to Switzerland and vice versa, a couple of weeks ago I signed a deal with the Luxembourg Prime Minister in terms of voting rights in Luxembourg, we’ve got similar arrangements in Spain and Portugal. If you look at health for example, 1.5% of the Irish health budget is from the NHS and they collect £300 million from the UK in terms of health spend so my point is, it’s in both sides interests to come to sensible early deals in terms of no deal but obviously we are still working to try and reach a deal and both leadership contenders, both Boris and Jeremy, have said that is their first priority.

SR: Okay, Stephen Barclay, than you very much for coming on the programme today.