Sophy Ridge on Sunday Interview with Steven Barclay Brexit Secretary

Sunday 19 May 2019

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SKY NEWS, SOPHY RIDGE ON SUNDAY

SOPHY RIDGE: In just over two weeks MPs will have a chance to vote on the Prime Minister’s Brexit deal for a fourth time and on a visit to Northern Ireland this week, the Brexit Secretary Steven Barclay told me that if the deal is voted down again then no-deal preparations need to be stepped up. It’s your first visit to Northern Ireland as Secretary of State, what have people been telling you?

STEVEN BARCLAY: Well there’s a clear message from both the business community and also the workers I’ve been speaking to that they want to see a deal, they want the certainty that that will bring in terms of investment. They feel optimism as to the potential to grow the businesses here and people want to see the government move forward with a deal with the certainty it brings and that’s been a very clear message both from small businesses and also some of the larger businesses I’ve been speaking to.

SR: Are you more worried about the prospect of no-deal after coming here?

STEVEN BARCLAY: Well it’s a very good illustration as to why we need a deal when you look at businesses like this. You see those movements that you referred to, Sophy, you see the fact that the workers come from both sides of the border. No one wants to see a return to the past, there is a very clear desire to ensure we continue to safeguard the achievements of the Good Friday Agreement, that’s always been the clear commitment of the Prime Minister, the clear commitment of the United Kingdom and very much the wish of the community here and they have a very clear message to Members of Parliament across the UK that it is now time to get a deal, to move forward and to allow them, the businesses here, to get on with what they do best which is growing the business and creating jobs.

SR: You clearly feel that a deal is really important, the government is bringing the same deal back again, what’s the point?

STEVEN BARCLAY: Well it’s not, it’s self-evidently not. We’ve been in talks with the Labour party, we’ve been exploring issues around workers’ rights, environmental standards, what commitments can be given to Parliament in terms of the next phase of negotiations. It is worth reminding people that this is a deal that delivers on the referendum both in terms of control of our immigration, control of our fishing, control of our agriculture but also it does so in ways that address the concerns you are referring to, address the concerns of businesses on the border who are doing these journeys back and forth.

SR: It’s clear that you think this is a good deal, it’s clear that you sincerely believe that this is the best option but it’s not going to get through.

STEVEN BARCLAY: Well we’ll see.

SR: You have to face facts.

STEVEN BARCLAY: Well that’s the point actually, that Members of Parliament do need to face facts and the issue so far is if the deal were not to go through, then are only two other alternatives. We either don’t leave and that would be an acute betrayal to our democratic system, I think it would send a very bad message internationally in terms of the UK’s reputation around the world and any idea of a second referendum is just a proxy for revoke. It’s for people who aren’t prepared to be candid when they say they want a second referendum, what they really want is to revoke and they are not prepared to say it. So we either leave with no deal or we revoke or the far better option is to actually leave with the certainty of what the community here and many others are saying, which is with a deal.

SR: So is that your preferred option then, if the deal doesn’t get through you’d prefer to leave with no deal?

STEVEN BARCLAY: Well I’ve always said to revoke the biggest democratic decision in our history would be disastrous, I think it would be fundamentally wrong and so whilst I’ve always been clear with my colleagues that I think a no-deal outcome would be disruptive, I think there would be clear concerns in communities like this around the consequence of no-deal but if Parliament won’t back a deal then it needs to confront that reality and I do think we then in that instance need to bring forward our preparations to mitigate no-deal because that will need to use the additional time we have and we’ll need to move apace to do so.

SR: Has it been a bit of a frustration to you that those preparations for no deal have not been continuing apace as you put it?

STEVEN BARCLAY: Well there is a huge amount been done in government and my department has been at the heart of that in terms of preparing for no-deal. Now there is …

SR: Has it been taken seriously enough do you think?

STEVEN BARCLAY: Well we need to do more and use the time that we have, the additional time that we have, to prepare further but before it’s worth remembering that part of the challenge is the fact that a lot of that preparation is with third parties. It’s with third parties in terms of businesses or with other member states and part of the difficulty is that Parliament has voted to take no-deal off the table and therefore, understandably, businesses then question whether it is worth preparing for something if they think the Parliament is going to stop it.

SR: You need money in advance as well don’t you?

STEVEN BARCLAY: Well [inaudible] has allocated money but the issue is, there is no guarantee that the EU 27 will grant an extension, that is a non-UK decision on the 31st October so that would be a matter for the EU so we do need to prepare for no-deal and ensure that we use the time we have to mitigate any disruption as best we can.

SR: Donald Tusk, the President of the EU Council, when that extension was granted, had a message of don’t waste that time. During that period the talks have failed with Labour, the deal is to be brought back again with no sign that it is actually going to get through this time and now it looks like the Conservative party is about to embark on another leadership contest. Is that really using the time wisely?

STEVEN BARCLAY: Well the government has reached out, it has recognised we don’t have a majority and yes, I’d say there are some of my own colleagues who despite being Brexiteers have refused to back leaving and I’m sure we would have left by now had they done so. We’ve reached out, we’ve sought discussions, I think progress has been made, the Prime Minister has been clear that there has been progress in the talks …

SR: But they’ve got nowhere haven’t they?

STEVEN BARCLAY: Well the fundamental issue for the Labour party to decide is, is it prepared to do a deal or is it the case that too many of their MPs now will refuse any sort of deal because they want a second referendum.

SR: Is it time for a new leader for the Conservative party?

STEVEN BARCLAY: Well the Prime Minister has set out the timescale in terms of her own role and what’s clear from the messages I’ve had from the communities I’ve been speaking to is how much they appreciate the commitment the Prime Minister has made to ensuring no hard border in Northern Ireland, to UK’s commitment under the Good Friday Agreement. When I was meeting with staff there is a real recognition that the Prime Minister has paid a significant personal price, she has sacrificed her Premiership in order to fight for a deal to safeguard the commitments in terms of the border here. So the Prime Minister has set that out, she is committed to securing a deal. She has then with the 1922 Committee, as you well know, set out the process there but the key issue for the Prime Minister, for the government as a whole, for the communities here, for businesses like this, is to see if we can leave with a deal because that’s what they want to see happen.

SR: It feels as if everybody almost from the Conservative party is about to throw their hat into the ring so this is your chance, are you going to rule yourself in or out?

STEVEN BARCLAY: Well the good thing about my job is I have so much to do, I don’t need to be [imposing restrictions] on doing things but what we’ve got to focus on is what I am doing …

SR: So do you rule yourself in or out?

STEVEN BARCLAY: What I am doing is focusing on getting the deal over the line, that is our priority, that’s the priority for my department, it’s absolutely core to what we set out to do and …

SR: So can you rule yourself out of standing?

STEVEN BARCLAY: ... what we set out to do, Sophy, and that is exiting the European Union. I campaigned for Leave, I support Leaving, at every opportunity I have voted to Leave. It’s important we Leave for a deal, that’s a clear message from communities like this and that is what I’m doing and that is what I’m 100% focused on, anything else is premature. I would say to my colleagues, focus on the day job, concentrate on what is before us, ensure that we deliver on what we promised to the public – ensure that we leave.

SR: So you are not ruling yourself out?

STEVEN BARCLAY: I am focused on the job! It’s a bit premature.

SR: Okay, do you think Boris Johnson would be a good Prime Minister?

STEVEN BARCLAY: I think all of my colleagues have talents, it will be for others to weigh up which of those face primacy but the key issue is that we ensure that Jeremy Corbyn is not Prime Minister because I think if you look at the plans he’s bringing forward on nationalisation, if you look at the plans he has to wreck our economy, his position in terms of national security, I mean it would be a complete disaster for our country so any of my colleagues would be preferable to an outcome where we risk a Jeremy Corbyn government.