Sunday with Niall Paterson Interview with David Cullinane TD Sinn Fein Brexit Spokesman

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SKY NEWS, SUNDAY WITH NIALL PATERSON

NIALL PATERSON: Once again lack of progress on the Irish border issue could now be the main stumbling block preventing Brexit talks moving to trade and the mood music from Dublin, well it hasn’t brought much in the way of festive cheer to Westminster. Sinn Fein’s Brexit spokesman is David Cullinane and he joins me now from Dublin. Mr Cullinane, many thanks for being with us and good morning to you.

DAVID CULLINANE: Hi Niall.

NP: Just how dire is the situation at the moment, is it the case that a solution can be found to the issue of the Irish border?

DAVID CULLINANE: Well hopefully it can but the solution has to be a tangible solution and a practical solution and bear in mind that a majority of people in the North of Ireland voted to stay in the European Union and they voted to stay for very practical and very obvious reasons, that Brexit is incompatible with the Good Friday Agreement and the peace process and obviously that’s very serious and we don’t want to see any hardening of the border. All of that requires a special and unique solution for Ireland and to date we have not had any tangible, practical solutions put on the table by Theresa May and her negotiators.

NP: Do you tend then to agree with Hilary Benn, that actually to find a solution to the Northern Irish border, the Irish border, that doesn’t involve continued membership of the single market, continued membership of the customs union, there isn’t one?

DAVID CULLINANE: I do and we are very clear in Sinn Fein and the vast majority of politicians in Ireland are very clear that the best solution for Ireland is for the entire island to stay in the European Union. It’s crucial that the North remains in the customs union and single market, that’s the only way to avoid a hardening of the border and we also want to ensure that the Good Friday Agreement is protected in all its parts. If we have a situation where the North is taken out of the customs union and single market against its will, we will see a hardening of the border and if we have a situation where the North is taken out of the purview of the European Court of Justice and the European Court of Human Rights, that has implications for the Good Friday Agreement, so this is very, very serious. We are at a crunch time, we want to see firm solutions put on the table but it is our responsibility in Ireland to get the best possible solution for the people of Ireland and the best possible result for the people of Ireland and I would say the people of Britain as well, is that we protect the Good Friday Agreement, we protect the peace process and we ensure we have no hardening of the border. The only way to achieve that is for a special and unique solution for Ireland which means the North staying in the customs union and single market and the Good Friday Agreement staying in the legal architecture of the European Union.

NP: Are you in essence then arguing for the border to essentially be the Irish Sea? If that’s the case why would Northern Ireland divide itself from the rest of the UK when the UK is its biggest trading partner?

DAVID CULLINANE: What we don’t want is any hardening of the border and what we don’t want is an EU frontier on the island of Ireland. The best outcome I think for Britain and for Ireland is for Britain to stay in the customs union and the single market, that’s a matter for the people of England, Scotland and Wales but in terms of Ireland, we have to look for what’s the best solution for Ireland. I would prefer if Britain stayed in the customs union and single market but short of that, we have to make sure that we protect Irish interests and the best way to protect Irish interests is to ensure that we have no hardening of the border at all, that we have no EU frontier on the island of Ireland and that we protect the Good Friday Agreement and the peace process. So that’s the very simple solution and I think what we are doing is making this more complex. The obvious solution here is that the entire island of Ireland must remain in the European Union.

NP: The suggestion from some, and it follows on from what you’ve been saying there, is that Sinn Fein is using Brexit as a means of whipping up support for reunification and if you believe that the people of Northern Ireland would vote to leave the UK, why hasn’t Gerry Adams simply asked Theresa May for a poll right now?

DAVID CULLINANE: Well this is not about Sinn Fein, this is about the people of Ireland and the majority of people in the North voted for very sensible and very practical reasons to stay in the European Union and what we are focused on in these negotiations is getting the best outcome. It is not just Sinn Fein, almost all of the parties in the North and in the South, want to ensure that we don’t have any hardening of the border. Of course I want to see a united Ireland but I also want to ensure that we don’t have one part of Ireland inside the European Union and one part of Ireland outside the European Union and we don’t want to see a situation where the people of the North are taking out of the European Union, out of the customs union, out of the single market and that the Good Friday Agreement is taken out of the European Union against the will of the people. That’s not right and we have a responsibility to stand up for the interests of the people of Ireland and that’s what the Irish Taoiseach needs to do and that’s what the European Union needs to do.

NP: We are about to run out of time but I just want to ask you briefly, clearly the political crisis in Dublin last week revealed the cracks in the confidence and supply arrangement. Do you anticipate a general election next year?

DAVID CULLINANE: It’s possible and that’s a different matter. We are focused obviously in the very short term on these crunch talks, that’s where the concentration of the Irish government needs to be. I hope that we have an outcome, I hope that we see practical solutions put on the table and I’ll remind people again, that it is in our interests in Britain and Ireland to protect the peace process and the Good Friday Agreement and the only way to achieve that is for a special and unique solution to be put in place.

NP: Well certainly there are plenty of people on both sides of the Irish Sea who would wish to see a solution to that border issue in the not too distant future. Just on the simple terms of a likelihood, very, very quickly, how likely do you think it is that we are going to get a solution before the European Council Meeting in December?

DAVID CULLINANE: I don't know, it’s over to Theresa May. I heard from the hard Brexiteers again this morning, we want a solution, the Irish people want a solution, the Irish government wants a solution and it is over to the negotiators and all we can do is make it very clear that the best and only solution for Ireland is for the entire island of Ireland to remain in the European Union, that is the only offer on the table.

NP: Mr Cullinane, I am afraid we have to leave it there, I’m so sorry but we are literally just about to run out of time. Many thanks for being with us.