Sunday with Niall Paterson Interview with Sam Gyimah, Universities Minister

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SUNDAY WITH NIALL PATERSON, SKY NEWS

NIALL PATERSON: It is an unenviable task – persuade the nation’s students that Jeremy Corbyn, the man who promises to scrap fees entirely, is not the answer and that they should take a look at Theresa May instead. Well that’s the job that was handed to my next guest in the latest reshuffle, joining me now from Westminster, the University’s Minister, Sam Gyimah. Mr Gyimah, very good to see you and we’ll move on to your brief in just a moment but I wonder whilst we have you, Brendan Cox, you will be aware, he has resigned from the charities he represents following his admission of improper conduct. What do you make of that?

SAM GYIMAH: Well I haven’t followed the story in detail but I’ve just seen the front page of the Mail on Sunday today and of course I think it’s a very sorry situation for the family, given what has happened. My comments would relate more to the charities sector in general, that they should all remember what their mission is and their mission is to help people who are often suffering and what I want to see is I want to see better safeguarding and higher standards of professional conduct across the charity sector.

NP: The reason there has been so much interest in those allegation is in part of course due to his high profile but it is also due to the revelations about Oxfam staff. Do you get the impression they understand the gravity of their situation?

SAM GYIMAH: Well I hope they do, I hope they do. I just feel that in the case of Oxfam maybe it’s become too big, too entitled and in some cases – not all cases – the sense of mission has been lost and that’s something that they need to rediscover certainly if taxpayer money is going to be supporting them. It’s been good to see Penny Mordaunt, the Secretary of State for International Development, write to all of them about their safeguarding processes and they have got to clear their stables and they’ve got to do it quickly.

NP: Those comments from Mark Goldring, the Oxfam Chief Executive, about not murdering babies in their cots – well that is something I suppose, I’m glad to hear it – but remarks like that don’t exactly scream that they’re taking this seriously.

SAM GYIMAH: Well I hope that the public reaction to his comments about what is shocking and disgraceful behaviour that has been revealed at Oxfam will show him that he got that seriously wrong, he shouldn’t have made those comments and he should focus on cleaning the stables. Of course Oxfam does tremendously good work but it is important that they above in terms of our suspicion in this area.

NP: Let’s move onto your brief then shall we and having sorted out the crisis in the prison service you are now turning your attention to higher education, there’s a review of the way it’s financed to be unveiled this week, what do you hope to achieve?

SAM GYIMAH: Well there is a review of post-18 education so it is not just higher education finance, that will be one part of the review. There are two reasons why we are hosting, having the review. The first is if you look at the current system which has delivered in many ways, today we are a global superpower in higher education, we have got four out of ten of our universities, four of our universities in the top ten in the world, sixteen in the top hundred, second only to the United States which has five times our population and we have more disadvantaged people going to university than ever before. So the current system has delivered but we want to review on it because if you look at how it’s operating, there are 500,000 pupils, students that go to university every year but the offer for most of them is pretty similar which is three years on campus degree often costing about £9000. I would want to see more variety and more diversity in the market because I bet you of those 500,000 students, most of them have different needs, different aspirations from a university education.

NP: Absolutely Mr Gyimah, but clearly the biggest concern for students or potential students these days is the affordability of it all. Can we just dwell on a couple of the specifics which will be covered in the review but which you no doubt have a view on – interest rates on loans are pretty demonstrably extortionate, RPI plus 3%, I mean that’s ridiculous isn’t it?

SAM GYIMAH: Well the review will look at all aspects of the student finance system. As you know, you don’t call a review and then pre-judge what the review is going to look at. These are tough issues to resolve, they require some very tough trade-offs and that is why you need a review to look at the evidence dispassionately, especially as we also want to preserve the really good bits of the current system which I’ve outlined which is more money going to universities and more disadvantaged pupils going in.

NP: But it’s not just the rate of interest, it’s the fact that the interest starts accumulating from the moment you start your course. I mean you haven’t even done your final exam, taken down your Che Guevara poster and packed up your Countdown teapot and already you owe £6000 in terms of interest, that’s unacceptable surely?

SAM GYIMAH: You’ve got to look at the system in the round. For some people it’s the rate of interest, for others it’s the headline fee, for others it might be maintenance loans but also we’ve also got to remember that we’ve got a system here where from 1st April you do not pay a penny unless you are earning £25,000 or more and after 30 years the debt is wiped off, however much you have managed to pay off by then. It hasn’t deterred students from going to university, you have more disadvantaged but overall more students going to university than ever before so it’s a myth that’s been perpetrated that somehow the finance system is acting as a break on students realising their aspirations but the way into this is to say how do we make sure there is sufficient variety in the courses, whether it is commuter courses where you can stay at home and study, sandwich courses which allow you to intersperse work experience with your degree and all of these different … degree apprenticeships – so that actually people can pick the right course for them, their aspirations and their circumstances.

NP: Mr Gyimah, isn’t the biggest problem that you have with expanding Conservative appeal with younger voters is that the paucity of the policy programme that you are putting forward when set against that from the Labour party – I mean the most eye-catching policy you have had thus far is freezing fees at £9250. Labour is saying they will get rid of them so here’s your chance, look down the barrel of the camera, address young people and tell them why the demographic most resistant to voting Conservative should do so?

SAM GYIMAH: Well firstly we haven’t just frozen fees, as I said we’ve raised the threshold of repayment from 21 to £25,000 so as of 1st of April you will only start paying if you are earning over £25,000 but I’ll look down the barrel of the camera and I’ll tell you about Corbyn’s offer. If it is free, it means numbers are capped and by definition education is exclusive. Everywhere in the world, we know every system in the world where university is free, you cut the numbers and that means it benefits the well-off and not the many. That is not what we are about as Conservatives, we do not want put limits on aspiration, we want universities to be engines of social mobility. That is why we will look at a system that works for everyone. Nearly every opposition in this country has made unsustainable promises and that’s ….

NP: Mr Gyimah, I’m so sorry, we have to leave it there, we are running out of time, thanks very much for being with us.

SAM GYIMAH: Thank you.