Sophy Ridge on Sunday Interview with Lisa Nandy Labour MP

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SKY NEWS, SOPHY RIDGE ON SUNDAY

SOPHY RIDGE: Well the story is likely to come very quickly back to the UK because when the Brexit deal comes before Parliament every vote counts and Theresa May might find that her fate lies in the hands of a small band of Labour MPs, one of them is Lisa Nandy so let’s talk to Lisa Nandy who joins us live now. The big question I suppose is we’ve now got that endorsement from the EU leaders, is the deal on the table something that you will be supporting?

LISA NANDY: Well I’d hope that it would be but in all honesty, no it’s not and it’s inconceivable now that when this comes before Parliament in just a few days’ time that I’ll be voting for it. I won’t be voting to support the withdrawal agreement. The problem isn’t the withdrawal agreement itself, it’s this 26 page political declaration that comes alongside it that even with just a few days to go until this country vote, offers no guide as to what the future holds for the UK. The problem that is facing someone like me sitting here in Wigan is that I don’t know at all from that 26 page declaration whether the future of the UK looks like one that is very closely allied to the EU, with all of the standards of work and protections that come with it or whether we are going down a low tax, low wage economy, that we remove all of those rights at work that my constituents rely on. Just down the road I’ve got people who work in factories, on the railways and in the construction industry and this is not an academic question for them, these are health and safety laws for example that have kept people alive at work in Wigan for decades because of those EU regulations that we ourselves have negotiated and as a consequence, we’ve got a few days to go, we’ve got 26 pages of virtually nothing about what the future holds, there’s been no attempt to reach out to Labour MPs like me, I haven’t had a single phone call from the other side as well as very little attempt to talk to the front bench or to the trade unions either an it’s just too big a gamble for MPs like me to take with our constituents’ futures.

SR: You say that it’s too big a gamble to take but of course no deal would be a huge gamble as well for your constituents too. You said previously that it would be a disaster so is it really responsible to risk no deal by not backing the deal?

LISA NANDY: Well this is the thing that is keeping MPs awake at night. It’s been suggested that it would be difficult for MPs like me to vote against this deal because many of our constituents voted to leave but the truth is it’s those thousands of jobs in food manufacturing just down the road from here that are keeping me awake, not my own job instead and there is a real prospect now of no deal because many of those leave voters, contrary to the opinion in Westminster, actually dislike this deal more than the remain voters who contact me on a regular basis. Their position has hardened over the last six months whereas six months ago people were saying to me we should leave and as long as we leave I don’t mind what form that takes, now leave voters in Wigan are often contacting me – including a man who I spoke to yesterday who said I’ve changed my mind, I just want no ties at all with the EU. So this is a very real prospect and there’s a problem coming down the line because potentially we are about to vote down all of the alternatives to this agreement in Parliament and then we’re going to vote down the agreement itself and there is a complacency from a number of MPs – I heard it from James Brokenshire just now on your programme, I’ve heard it from Amber Rudd – that says that Parliament will resolve this. But Parliament has shown itself unable to resolve this and that’s why you need a reset and a completely different approach.

SR: You say we need a reset and a completely different approach but what does that actually mean and how do you break through this impasse because I have to say, speaking to you, you say you can’t vote for the deal so if Labour MPs like you can’t support it then there is no chance of her getting it through the House of Commons is there?

LISA NANDY: Well the reason that Parliament is divided is because the public is divided. We have had two and a half years that have essentially entrenched those divisions in the country and the only way that a withdrawal agreement would pass Parliament, it’s becoming increasingly clear, is if we have some clarity about what the future looks like. In Ireland for example they have used Citizen’s Assemblies to try and break that deadlock and make recommendations to Parliament but that would require Theresa May to go back to the EU to ask for more time in order to establish that process of dialogue because the truth is that I represent a lot of people in Wigan who voted to leave but I also have many constituents, like all of my colleagues who voted to remain, and we will not settle this through a tug of war, people have to feel that they have a stake in their future. If I was Theresa May what I would be doing now is accepting that this withdrawal agreement is not going to pass until we’ve had that process of dialogue, until we’ve given the public and parliament a real say in what comes next, taking some of the heat out of this debate and shed more light on what should happen next instead. That would mean delay, delay has a cost, I accept that but we have to be honest with people now, that there is no option on the table that doesn’t have a cost. I am sitting here in Wigan where 30 years ago the Thatcher government decided to close the mines and we’re still dealing with the fall out of that decision now. I don’t want to be sitting here in 30 years saying to you we made the wrong decision, we didn’t take the time to get it right and as a consequence we’re dealing with the fall out again.

SR: What does the delay mean though? Are you calling for an extension to Article 50, so that more negotiation can happen?

LISA NANDY: I’m calling for an extension to Article 50 not so that more negotiation can happen within the Conservative party, which is what we have seen over the last three years, two wings of the Conservative party negotiating whether we have a hard Brexit or a harder Brexit and not asking for more negotiation between the EU and between the UK because I think the withdrawal agreement largely is what it set out to do but that negotiation within the country has simply not happened and I’ve stood in Parliament over the last three years and listened to colleagues accusing one another of betrayal, trying to call for alternatives like a People’s Vote so that the result of the referendum can be overturned but we won’t settle this through a tug of war and we won’t settle it through the angry rhetoric that we’ve had over the last few years. That’s why we need a process of dialogue and consensus, in truth she should have done this three years ago and there were people like me and many other bigger voices like Gordon Brown as well calling for that. We’ve wasted a lot of time but we need to take the time to get this right and I appreciate that many people in this country are desperate for us to move on and try to look at the issues that really matter like mental health, like social care, all of which matter more to my constituents actually than this ongoing desperate debate about the EU. But if we don’t get this right we’re not going to resolve it and we will still be talking about it in ten years’ time and that’s why I say she has to go back, extend Article 50 and start that process with the country that she should have done three years ago.

SR: Okay, we’ll leave it with that cheery thought that we’ll still be talking about this in ten years’ time. Lisa Nandy, thank you very much.