Sunday with Niall Paterson Interview with Dave Prentis, General Secretary of UNISON

SKY NEWS – SUNDAY WITH NIALL PATERSON – 10.00 – 24.09.17 – INTERVIEW WITH DAVE PRENTIS, GENERAL SECRETARY OF UNISON

NIALL PATERSON: Well it has been a busy few months for British unions facing up to Brexit, facing down the government over the public sector pay cap so who better to talk to than Dave Prentis, the General Secretary of UNISON, the biggest public services union in the UK. Mr Prentis, lovely to see you.

DAVE PRENTIS: Good morning.

NP: I don't know if you witnessed the panel discussion we had a few moments ago which was intended to be about the future of the Labour party but actually gave us a fairly clear idea of where some of the divisions lie, at least within the PLP. In your mind to what extent is the Labour party united at the moment?

DAVE PRENTIS: It’s more united than it’s been for some time. If you look at this conference people look for undertones, undercurrents, they look for division, it’s in all of the newspapers but I’ve got to say the agenda for this conference is outward looking, it’s about what’s happening within our society, it’s about caring services, it’s about public services, the pay cap and the need to grow our health service, our education, housing and these are all positive issues which people want to listen to and there is far less division at this conference than there is within the Tory party or any other political party in this country, far less division. One or two issues, very small constitutional issues but most of, nearly all of the debate is about how we move forward in policy terms.

NP: Still, in advance of conference you wrote an article for the New Statesman in which you called for an end to the infighting. You don’t tend to issue a call such as that when everything is sweetness and light.

DAVE PRENTIS: Oh no, there is infighting, we know that, it’s gone on for some time. There’s infighting at local level, there’s different groups vying for influence and what I don’t want is the local arguments taking place to actually come into our conference. This is where we set out our stall, not just to say that we’re the best party but the party that can win power, that can take this country forward. So yes, I did make that plea, I think it’s been honoured in the motions that we’ve seen coming forward and we’re going to have a great conference.

NP: So just to be clear, are you in essence calling on people to stop rocking the boat or are you suggesting that your captain Corbyn might have to put up with a little bit of seasickness from time to time?

DAVE PRENTIS: What I’m suggesting is that we’re broad church, I mean I’ve been involved in the Labour party for 40 years and I’ve seen different groups come and different groups go as the Labour has progressed to the position where it’s in now and my call is that we accept we’re a broach church, we may have differences but we argue about those differences as one party, not venomously, no infighting that can’t be resolved but we actually come together, recognise that we’re on the point of taking power and that’s our first priority

NP: I just want to turn to that and focus on your view of the leader. You previously described Jeremy Corbyn as a friend, at the same time you have been critical when you felt it necessary. Autumn last year, the Labour party further way from government that at any point you can remember and you echoed those remarks in the aftermath of the Copeland by-election. Where we are now, all your positivity, in essence is it all flowing directly from a general election result in which the Labour party still couldn’t win a majority?

DAVE PRENTIS: I’m a critical friend and I think Jeremy needs critical friends. Not everything that Jeremy says is completely right, not everything that John McDonnell says is completely right. We are looking from a different perspective, we represent over one million low paid women and they are suffering because of what’s happened in our society since the failure of the banks over ten years ago. Our aim is to get them a decent standard of living so they can put food on the table. They have lost on average £3000 a year and now we’re saying something can be done and we’re just at the point – we didn’t win the last election, this is the issue, we didn’t win it but we can win the next election if we pull together and have a clear agenda like we did in the last election.

NP: Let’s talk specifically about pay, public sector pay and the pay cap. Now you have called for a 5% rise is that right?

DAVE PRENTIS: And £800.

NP: The Labour party currently is proposing nowhere near that.

DAVE PRENTIS: Well the Labour party, if they adopt our motion which I know they will do, will be calling for it. The motion that we’re putting forward commits the Labour party to the claims that we’re submitting and it’s the right thing to do. I will actually say to you, give it a few weeks and we’ll have the Tory party supporting it as well. We’re talking not just to Labour as a trade union, we are also seeking to influence Tory MPs, especially in the marginal – you have got to remember in the marginal they may have a 100, 200 majority and we’ve got thousands of members in those marginal.

NP: Wouldn’t it have been better then to have had a proposal of that type in the manifesto when they were putting it directly to the public?

DAVE PRENTIS: It was in the manifesto and we wrote it, that the pay cap would end for public service workers.

NP: But that is a different thing to promising public sector workers a real terms pay rise. On the figures in the manifesto, the pay cap goes but people are still receiving in essence a pay cut when you factor in inflation.

DAVE PRENTIS: The claim that we’re putting forward is to restore some of the loss that’s been incurred over the last ten years.

NP: But not give them a proper pay rise?

DAVE PRENTIS: And to actually deal with inflation as it’s coming now. We believe it is affordable, the money is there to pay it, you can’t come to us and say the country can’t afford it because quite clearly it can. The rich in our society are doing very well, we’re talking about more progressive taxation system, we could even talk about deferring Trident in order that this be paid but we’ll make sure that as a public service union, that public service workers providing essential services, not just those wearing uniforms as many of our members do but that all members get a uniform pay increase across all public services and that will happen.

NP: Surely what your members are asking for is not just an end to the pay cap, not just an end to just above the pay cap, it is actually a proper pay rise. Now as things stand, if you have inflation around 3%, on the plans that you and the Labour party are putting forward that’s not going to be the case for quite some time.

DAVE PRENTIS: The pay claim that we’ve submitted will deal with the inflation that’s happening now and it will deal with some of the inflation that’s happened in the past but we want to move forward from there and make sure that we restore the position for public service workers. They have lost so much, I repeat again one million women that we represent have lost over £3000 a year, 600,000 jobs have gone in that period and we need to restore our public services. They provide the fabric of our life, they look after the vulnerable but you need workers who are decently paid to actually do that to increase the role.

NP: A slight change of direction, as the head of a union what’s your view on the decision by TfL to remove the licence from Über? 40,000 it looks like could be losing their source of income.

DAVE PRENTIS: You’ve got to understand what’s happened. Obviously Über is a new development using new technology, it looks great on paper but what you can’t ignore is the safety of the people who are being carried and I think the real reason why we have come to this impasse has been that there are no safety checks on the drivers that meet proper standards, that the problems have been hidden from the regulators and they are using really bad practices that could put people in danger. Now if they solved the issues that have been identified then it may well be that the licence will not be taken away. You have got to remember as well it hasn’t been stopped, they can appeal against it but they have got to answer some of the massive criticisms that have been made by what is a really good regulator in London.

NP: And just a final thought. Jeremy Corbyn as the head of the Labour party for the foreseeable future but who comes next?

DAVE PRENTIS: Well let’s stay with Jeremy. It’s like raking over the coals and how long has Jeremy got left? Jeremy will take us into the next election and we’ll see who wants to come forward at that stage but we work with the whole of the Labour party, we’re not working with one group. I’ll make it clear, we don’t work with Progress, we don’t work with Momentum, we are affiliated to the Labour party and we support our leader and we always have done.

NP: It does seem likely however that whoever does take over will come from the left of the party, you’d concede that at least?

DAVE PRENTIS: It could well do, could well be. We’ll have to wait and see if they have got the best manifesto, if they’ve got the best leadership qualities. They might not come from the left but we’ve gone through many, many years of having right wing Labour governments, perhaps it’s the turn of the left and see what they can do. You cannot get away from the fact that Labour is almost on the point of winning the next election and if there was an election this year, if the Tories fall apart as they are doing, Jeremy Corbyn will win that election.

NP: Dave Prentis, many thanks for being with us.