Sunday with Niall Paterson Interview with Steven Woolfe MEP

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SUNDAY WITH NIALL PATERSON, SKY NEWS

NIALL PATERSON: Marmite, just one of the items in a hamper delivered to Michel Barnier by a delegation of Brexiteers this week, very apt you might think when it comes to Brexit. The hamper also included gin, sparkling wine, marmalade and the complete works of Shakespeare but was it enough to persuade Michel to give the UK a good trade deal? Joining me now is Steven Woolfe MEP who led the delegation. Steven, lovely to see you, thank you for coming in.

STEVEN WOOLFE: Thank you.

NP: What did you make of Michel Barnier? We get second-hand reports from those involved in the negotiations, you spent some time face to face with the man, what’s your appraisal?

STEVEN WOOLFE: It’s not the first time I’ve met him, I’ve had conversations with him in Strasbourg and I was one of the first and only British MEPs to have a delegation of other MEPs when he was explaining what his strategy for the negotiations were. What you have got to take about Michel Barnier is a very strong-willed Gaullist French politician, he is of the mould where he understands the politics as well as the civil service but, more importantly what we have to understand is that his full strength, power, idea and backing is behind the EU 27 against the United Kingdom. It’s his interest to make sure they are protected not to help us.

NP: I wonder what Michel Barnier made of you and the delegation, beware of Brexiteers bearing gifts and all of that. Now I like a gin as well as the next TV presenter but was that bottle of Hendricks, was that enough to persuade Michel Barnier to include financial services in the trade deal?

STEVEN WOOLFE: No, I don't think it is at the moment to allow financial services in a trade deal. Look, let’s look at the context of why we gave those various gifts, some of them is to show the links between companies like Unilever which is Anglo-British to say to that we could continue trade and Hendricks and the cheeses we have to show the modernity of where we are going. But he will not allow us to have a trade deal in my view that includes goods and services and it will not allow one that has the free rein of the financial services sector to be able to trade to.

NP: So were the British public then, when they voted on leaving the European Union, were they sold something of a pup then because I remember being told it’ll be fine, the City of London can continue to operate as it always has.

STEVEN WOOLFE: Well the City of London will still be able to operate as it has in terms of trade, that’s what we always said. You’ll still be able to buy goods and sell goods and have the marketing elements. What the City needs to understand is where there are principles that apply to the United States, something called equivalence, that equivalence will not be complete for the British market now as I understand it from our discussions with those in the ECON committee and what I come out with Michel Barnier. I think it’s clear that they are going to try and divide the City of London to those of us like me who think we can diverge and have our own set of rules for those companies that don’t trade with Europe and allow us what we believe in, if you’re in Europe trade on their rules and I think there is an argument in the European Union that that would be too competitive for Britain therefore we must make sure that all British businesses comply with EU rules.

NP: If you are right and if that turns out to be the case and we are essentially hamstrung to an extent by the European Union in terms of that deal, is no deal better than that deal in your view?

STEVEN WOOLFE: I think that’s one of the key points that the delegation was taking to Michel Barnier. You have in terms of Lord Digby Jones, somebody who understands business completely; you have in terms of John Longsworth someone who understands the businesses that are part of Leave Means Leave and the MPs from the Conservative party, of course with John Mills two million supporters of the Labour movement behind his Labour lead and we were all saying to him if we leave on WTO rules Europe will suffer worse than us.

NP: In what sense?

STEVEN WOOLFE: Well I made a very clear point to him, not only were some of the high end German businesses and European businesses suddenly hit by a tariff, most favoured nation, but as I’m being told, traders are informing me that the currency would depreciate by 20% thus increasing products in Germany by 20%. Think of that, a BMW that might be 50,000 with a Land Rover now going to 60,000, what are you going to buy – the Land Rover or the BMW?

NP: Nigel Farage raised a few eyebrows this week, I would imagine yours included, when he appeared to say that a second referendum might not be a bad idea, put the debate to bed, stop all the whinging and whining of the remoaners.

STEVEN WOOLFE: Well his mathematics are wrong there to start off with, it would be a third referendum and this is not a game of tic-tac-toe. We are not here to try and have the best of three, the key point that we should understand that Michel Barnier knows that he wants to have Brexit in March 2019 and the British people want to have their referendum, their vote complied with and there should be no movement on the idea of giving ultra-Remainers the view that they are in charge of this and they can reverse this. All he did was give succour and comfort and support to that ideology.

NP: He does have a point though doesn’t he when he said that the remain campaign such as it is, is making all the running these days, the idea that the case for a clean break from the European Union simply hasn’t been made.

STEVEN WOOLFE: Well I think he is absolutely right and we are aware of the strength of the remainer arguments and one of the points that we were doing before Christmas, by raising the petition that was put online by a young man from the north of England that’s now got to be debated in a few weeks’ time in parliament, by my visit with the three key people from the leave movement to Michel Barnier, the speeches that I’m going outside the House of Parliament this afternoon and others around the country, there is a leave fight-back now on this ideology that Remainers are going to win.

NP: You are of course no longer with UKIP but I have to ask you what you think of the current furore surrounding the current UKIP leader’s partner, at least current the last time I checked this morning. Should she be expelled from the party, should he be investigated as a result of comments that she made?

STEVEN WOOLFE: As said, I left UKIP a long time ago and it is a matter for them but all I will say is that Nigel has done this when he was the leader, we found that with Diane James and myself, that the National Executive and certain people within UKIP, whether those who are now no longer capable of speaking for example in the Welsh Assembly, have allowed those views to rise with UKIP. They were not there whilst we had a balanced intelligent debate within the party, they need to sort themselves out if they want to be a radical party that can move. At the moment they are nowhere near it.

NP: Briefly, what is the point of UKIP these days?

STEVEN WOOLFE: Well there should be a point to represent those millions of people here who are stuck in the middle between Labour and Conservative parties, who ignore them and leave them behind and don’t listen to their views and they really should have had that mantle. I don't think they have got it at the moment and there is certainly no one rising from the ranks capable of taking it.

NP: Well we all have the delightful prospect of another UKIP leadership election to look forward to! Steven Woolfe, lovely to have you in the studio, thank you for being with us.

STEVEN WOOLFE: My pleasure, take care, thanks.