Murnaghan 11.11.12 Interview Harriet Harman, Shadow Culture Secretary, on George Entwhistle resigning as Director General of the BBC

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

ANNA JONES: I had been expecting to speak to Lord Patten myself live now but he appears to have changed his mind, however I am able to speak to Labour’s Shadow Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, I’m pleased to say, Harriet Harman, who joins me now live. Harriet Harman, was it the right decision that George Entwhistle should resign?

HARRIET HARMAN: Yes, I think it was, I think that what the BBC needed at a very difficult moment was clear leadership and it was evident not only from his appearance at the Select Committee but also again yesterday on the radio interviews that George Entwhistle, for all the great virtues that he had, was not able to step forward and show that leadership, so this is a very difficult moment for the BBC but I believe that there is such a depth of support and admiration and commitment to the BBC, not only amongst all the staff who work at the BBC but also amongst the British public so I think it’s a difficult moment for the BBC but I think everybody wants the BBC to go forward and get through this.

AJ: So you think that the decision was right because he appeared not to have a grip on the situation, he didn’t appear to be in control, not for editorial reasons?

HH: Well I think that certainly, whatever is discovered – and obviously we are still awaiting the various inquiries about why the Newsnight programme exposing, revealing the sexual criminal offences was not aired but a valedictory tribute programme to Jimmy Savile was aired, we still haven’t had the response from those inquiries but I think that we have to remember too here that there are a number of issues in this situation, that all those people who were sexually abused by Jimmy Savile, who’d gained his celebrity if you like at the BBC, they are victims who have to be remembered and we’ve got the victim now of the false accusation, that has to be remembered but I think one of the things that we want to make sure is not another victim is the independence of the BBC. You know, the BBC is our great national broadcaster and one of the things that is valued is that it is not run by politicians or run by parliament so we as parliamentarians, as MPs, we’re very concerned because the BBC is an important part of public life but I think we all have to resist the temptation to micro-manage the solution as the BBC itself needs to find its way forward.

AJ: Okay, but do you have any sympathy for George Entwhistle, is there a sense do you think that he’s been hung out to dry? There are clearly some serious mistakes made but is that one man’s job and one man who has been in the job for a matter of just fifty odd days?

HH: Clearly there were systemic problems as to why information wasn’t challenged, wasn’t properly investigated, why he didn’t know about it and many of those no doubt are systemic problems but at the end of the day the buck does stop with the leader and if not once but twice he’d failed to get a grip on the situation, even to the extent of not informing himself as to what was actually happening then I think that although he clearly was much admired and respected in the jobs he’d done previously, obviously he was failing to show leadership. I mean it was his decision to …

AJ: I’m sorry to interrupt but the reason I was interrupting is you said he failed to inform himself, aren’t you shocked that no member of the management team told him that Newsnight was going to air these very serious allegation of child abuse, no one told him about that and also no one alerted him to the fact that there were then doubts about those allegations further down the line, isn’t there a problem with the management structure?

HH: There might well be, I’m sure there are problems there which need to be looked at but also the buck does stop with the person at the top, the fact that he didn’t watch the programme himself, he didn’t see the front page of the Guardian – at the end of the day obviously somebody who is a leader needs good support staff and good systems but they also have to accept responsibility that the buck stops with them. But I think everybody is very sad about what’s happened to George Entwhistle because he’s had a great career in broadcasting and has been well-liked as well as admired and respected but if he wasn’t able to show the leadership that he expected himself to show, then that’s obviously why he’s resigned but I think we all need to keep calm heads here and express our support for the importance of the work that the BBC does not just in news but in sport and culture, it is respected in this country and all around the world and I think the commitment and support that there is for the BBC will endure and it will get through this but we all have to keep cool heads.

AJ: The BBC Trust of course appointed him, do you feel confident that the BBC Trust has done its job properly both in that appointment and in regulating the BBC? Do you think that Lord Patten has questions to answer?

HH: Well I think everybody will want to examine their role in this situation, of course they will, and importantly the BBC Trust will need to look for a new leader of the BBC. I think no questions should be off limits but also the BBC must get on day to day with its important work and although this is a very, very difficult and dangerous time for the BBC because there are many who have got criticisms of the BBC, who don’t want to see it succeed and flourish because they have criticisms of the way that it operates but I think that most people will want to see it succeed.

AJ: And the BBC and Newsnight itself has acknowledged very serious mistakes, that’s bound to have damaged trust, we know it’s damaged trust in the BBC, how damaged do you think it is?

HH: Well I think one of the most important things about the BBC is that when people switch on the BBC news is that they trust it and they believe it and they feel it is not pushing any particular agenda, it is just objective news and therefore that is very, very important indeed. Also the investigative journalism is important at the BBC and clearly that, in the case of these Newsnight programmes, has shown itself to be flawed so of course there are questions to be answered but I think that it’s very important that all the journalists, all the broadcasting staff, everybody who works at the BBC, doesn’t lose faith in the fact that I think people in this country enormously support the BBC, wish it well for the future and want to see it getting over this moment of danger.

AJ: Harriet Harman, we appreciate your time, thanks for joining us here on Murnaghan today.