Murnaghan 11.11.12 Interview with General Sir David Richards, Chief of Defence Staff, on Remembrance Day

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

ANNA JONES: General Sir David Richards, Chief of the Defence Staff, is the professional head of armed forces, he has a central role in the proceedings there today and of course in British military action around the world. Sky’s Defence Correspondent, David Bowden, spoke to him.

DAVID BOWDEN: General Richards, let’s talk about Remembrance Day first of all. In 2012 is it the same thing as it was twenty, thirty years ago when we were talking about historical conflicts because now of course we have people fighting and dying unfortunately in Afghanistan?

GENERAL RICHARDS: Well I think for most of us in the armed forces, and don’t forget we’ve got a very combat experienced armed forces now, the first thing we think about is our friends. I’ve been in the Army 41 years, much of that time has been spent in a period of combat and I know and I’m sure many, many others are like me, the first thing I’ll be thinking about are the people we aren’t growing old with because we fought alongside them but they died. I think apart from that, and that will be paramount in a lot of people’s minds, it is an opportunity for the nation to join with us in thanking their armed forces for doing what we do on their behalf. I’ll just note that whilst not everyone agrees with some of the wars we fight, there is quite clearly a universal feeling throughout the nation really, that the armed forces themselves are to be applauded.

DB: You mention that a lot of people disagree with the wars we fight, particularly this one, particularly now. We had a Select Committee a couple of weeks ago saying, look, we are not going to be able to leave Afghanistan as a stable country, are we getting to the point militarily where we say look, enough is enough now, we’ve expended too much blood and treasure, let’s just finish this.

GENERAL RICHARDS: Well that would be a political decision ultimately rather than a military one but let me just remind you of a few facts seen through my prism. First of all, it’s too early to say we can’t leave it stable enough. I have no doubt and I have many Afghan friends including many in the government, who are genuinely absolutely determined to get this right. They know that the vast majority of the Afghan population do not want a return to the pre-Taliban or Taliban era and we recently have seen through that very courageous schoolgirl who suffered at the hands of the Taliban, what sort of a future we could be bequeathing the Afghan people if we get this wrong. So the jury’s out, I’m the first to say there are many challenges ahead but we shouldn’t immediately assume we can’t meet the majority and do a good enough job. I think the second thing is really about our own security. Many people died in 9/11 and 7/7, very many Britons and I just ask people whether or not they could be content, confident that a return to the Taliban even in the south of Afghanistan wouldn’t be a breeding ground for the sort of terrorism that led to those atrocities. Now I know there is a debate about it but I think it is a hell of a chance to take and if we can get this right and grow the ANSF to the point where they are competent enough to deal with that risk, which is our strategy before I emphasise we come out of the combat role at the end of 2014, with probably some residual support including definitely an Officer Academy which will grow the institution of the Afghan military, I think it is a little premature to say we can’t pull this off.

DB: Are we going to be able to pull it off in two years then? I mean clearly there is still a lot of work to be done, we now have the people we’re training up turning their guns on British soldiers. How can you combat that as more and more Afghans are brought into the security forces?

GENERAL RICHARDS: Well it is a very effective Taliban tactic. Militarily it has very little impact on us, I mean about 4% of our casualties alone are caused through that mechanism but psychologically and clearly from the effect it has here in this country and on the media and because of the rather insidious nature of it, it has a big impact and the Taliban are experts at working the psychological weapon that this is. But you know, the vast, vast majority of the Afghan national police and army are not involved in this sort of thing but 0.02% actually. So rather like when we are looking at crime, I think we need to look at the victim rather than the perpetrator. I know from personal conversations with President Karzai and all the Afghan and ISAF commanders they’re all over this thing and we are absolutely determined to get on top of it, like we had with similar risks – I mean you remember the IED threat two years ago was making people very worried that we really couldn’t sustain the campaign – I’m sure we will get on top of this one again and total unanimity that we must.

DB: Is there any divergence between the military planners who look at it as an operation and the politicians, we have already had the Defence Secretary saying he thinks this coming twelve months we can pull another 4,000 of our troops out, what you appear to be saying is look, we need to go hard at this for as long as we can and then at the end of that can we assess whether we’ve worked it or not?

GENERAL RICHARDS: Well two things, first of all I can’t speak directly for the Secretary of State but if you look at that interview that was slipped in by the interview and he didn’t correct it because he was already on the next answer and he talked about many thousands rather than down to 4,000 so I’d just like to put the record straight.

DB: Let’s be categorical here, are you saying that the best part of 9,000 of our soldiers, sailors, airmen and women have to stay in Afghanistan until the back end of 2014?

GENERAL RICHARDS: No, most definitely not. I am at one with the Secretary of State and the military and political authorities are at one on this more generally. The progress downwards, the trajectory that we’re talking about is in the thousands and the ISAF plan that General John Allen is devising and confirming before it comes to nations for endorsement, we’ll see a significant reduction by the end of 2013. There is still a debate about how steep that trajectory will be and to a degree we have to see how well we get on with training up the ANSF to take our place but I emphasise that fifty out of eighty forward operating bases have already been shut this last year in Helmand for example and the same is going on around the rest of the country so give or take, accepting the margins, we’re very clear on the strategy and I think we can be confident that we can deliver it.

DB: Let’s look post-Afghanistan now because clearly however you do it, we’re in the final stages. President Obama, elected again in the US, he’s got to deal with Iran, potentially Syria, are you planning, are people in this building planning for involvement in anything in those places?

GENERAL RICHARDS: No, we’re very alert, like you will be, to what is going on in the world and the idea that some propagate that post Afghanistan the armed forces will be idle, I find preposterous almost because it has never been the case in history. I don't know what will come our way, I am certain something will come our way so as Britain’s military strategic commander and in charge of the armed forces, it’s my job to make sure that when the government asks something of us we’re in a position to deliver it, properly framed options that are doable, achievable and I think affordable and I think that is what my focus is at the moment.

DB: So somebody is looking at Iran, Syria and other projects as a contingency?

GENERAL RICHARDS: Anything is possible, nothing is off the table. In the context of Iran for example, the Prime Minister himself made that very clear the other day but we’re not actively looking at how we might execute these options, these are hypothetical things that I think are best left unsaid.

DB: We started with Remembrance Day, let’s finish it, you’ve been a soldier for four decades, you’ve lost friends, when you bow your head what do you think, what does David Richards the man think of?

GENERAL RICHARDS: Well I think first of all of friends that aren’t there bowing their heads beside me. I think of deep gratitude for what they did on behalf of their friends often, actually in battle we fight and die sadly sometimes for your friends, that’s really what’s going through your mind so I think most importantly for most of us, that’s what we’ll be thinking about but I think this business of being aware that the nation supports our armed forces and generally supports what we’re trying to do, is hugely important. If we lost that bond – and I was delighted the other day that in a poll 87% of the population of our country said they approved strongly or pretty strongly of the armed forces, no other group in society has that sort of endorsement from the population as a whole and it is very, very important that we retain that, so I’ll be thinking of the people, why we have to fight wars on their behalf but most importantly those I no longer have the honour to talk to about these sorts of things.

AJ: So General Sir David Richards, Chief of the Defence Staff, talking to our Defence Correspondent David Bowden there.