Murnaghan 2.02.14 Interview with Lord Prescott

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

Now then, the Labour leader, Ed Miliband, has announced a plan to shake up Labour’s relationship with the trades unions. He wants to scrap the system which gave him rather a thin victory over his brother David in that race for the Labour leadership. He plans to replace it with a one member, one vote election. Now Ed Miliband is not the first leader to try to reform the way union members vote on Labour party issues, the late John Smith began the process of introducing one member, one vote when he was Labour leader more than twenty years ago. Here’s a clip of him talking at the 1993 Labour party conference.

JOHN SMITH SPEAKING IN 1993: Let me make it absolutely and totally clear, it is not a choice between one member, one vote and a role for the trade unions. It’s the chance for more trade unionists than ever before to take part in all the decisions and the campaigns of the Labour party. DM: The late John Smith there. Well despite an impassioned speech there, it looked like he was going to lose the vote at the conference and it took one John Prescott, then the Shadow Transport Minister, to persuade the party faithful to back him.

JOHN PRESCOTT SPEAKING IN 1993: Lord knows I don’t like the press setting the agenda and you know I don’t court publicity of the press but I’ll tell you what, there’s no doubt this man, our leader, put his head on the block by saying basically I fervently believe – because that’s what he believes – of a relationship and a strong one with the trade unions and the Labour party. He’s put his head there, now’s our time to say give us a bit of trust and let’s have this vote support.

DM: That was in 1993 and John Prescott, now Lord Prescott of course, joins me now from Hull. A very good morning to you, Lord Prescott, you don’t a day older than in 1993. Well it is 21 years ago, you’ve let your hair down a bit, we can see your eyes! It was 21 years ago, why has it taken Labour so long to continue and get on with the task?

JOHN PRESCOTT: Well it’s all about change and leadership elections we’ve had in that period of time, we’ve gone through a lot of change. Change is always controversial but it’s forever there. I remember as a trade unionist when I fought an election, every seaman had a vote for every five years and I had to fight against that, so this business of fighting for one member, one vote is the most democratic principle within the framework of the relationship between the trade unions and Labour and I don’t think for a moment that’s threatened by these new changes from Ed.

DM: Yes, I know but I was asking why the system persisted for so long. I mean people like you presumably could have had three votes or did have three votes in leadership elections, as a trade unionist, an MP and a member of the party.

JOHN PRESCOTT: Yes, that’s what I had! It was a nonsense really wasn’t it and it wasn’t liked by members of the party who only had a say in the constituencies, one vote, the MPs had a privileged position, the trade unions themselves and people could have three or four votes. That will change now and I’ll tell you something else that will change. When I ran for a recent election for the Treasurer of the party, I couldn’t get out of the trade union their list of members because they said data protection but they used that list of members to tell them not to vote for me. Now each individual member will make their own decision, it will be a fairer election process and quite right and not before time.

DM: But what does it do to Labour party funding? Some of the estimates are that it will take a £4 million knock and then therefore have to rely on the big trade unions for individual donations therefore giving them the more say in policy, more say in what goes on in the Labour party

JOHN PRESCOTT: Hang on, the Labour party gets more from individual contributions than they get from trade unions but we welcome the money from the trade unions, that’s ordinary working people making a contribution to a party that is likely to implement the kind of policies that they believe it, quite the opposite to what this government is doing. But at the end of the day, look, when I was the Deputy Prime Minister we raised it to 400,000 member, that’s twice the amount today. That’s the challenge for us now and that’s what Ed is trying to do, get more people actively involved in the Labour party and that’s what these proposals will do. It’s over a period of five years, we’ll look at whether these fears materialise that people talk about but it’s about giving people a greater say in the party, giving them an actually direct say in the Labour party. I just think that’s more democratic and I’m a trade unionist all my life, 55 years. I don’t think that’s going to damage the relationship but change came with Clause Four, change came with one member, one vote and another change is on the way and it all within about twenty years but that’s the nature of change.

DM: It’s ironic though isn’t it that Mr Miliband could be doing away with the system that saw him narrowly elected as leader.

JOHN PRESCOTT: Well frankly that should credit him shouldn’t it? Do you know many politicians who do things that worked to their advantage and they’re dismantling them? He is motivated by the belief and the idea which John Smith started about one member, one vote and that change is taking place but what Ed will like, and I think everyone will, at least we know that the vote will be the individual members and not perhaps a cabal of people deciding what in fact a large amount of votes will do as we have seen sometimes in trade unions. .

DM: Just while you’re with us, Lord Prescott, cast your eye away from your own party and tell me what you make of the other two, the coalition, and this row that’s going on in the Education Department it seems between Michael Gove and his junior, his deputy, David Laws, about discipline in schools. I mean Michael Gove seems to be everywhere doesn’t he, about education?

JOHN PRESCOTT: Well put a journalist in a politician’s job and that’s what happens! … the journalist of course.

DM: You mean Michael Gove, do you feel he is …?

JOHN PRESCOTT: … it’s not just education, it’s immigration, all areas.

DM: But do you feel he is just continuing with what the Labour party started, what Tony Blair in effect started in reforming education or is he going way, way, way further than Labour would have gone?

JOHN PRESCOTT: He came in saying that’s what he wanted to do, particularly in regard to the Academies and in some cases he’s done that but I think the general feeling is that he’s just gone off on his own bent and doing what he wants and now making it highly political but making sure he gets people who support him in jobs that are commenting on his performance, like the Ofsted.

DM: And lastly, Lord Prescott, thank you for that but I have got to ask you about pens. This comes from the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister where we hear they’ve still got 20,000 odd pens that you commissioned.

JOHN PRESCOTT: Well I didn’t commission or sign anything, but it’s typical of that department and Mr Pickles, he’s been pointing out how much he spent on biscuits. This was in 2006, I never even saw one of the pens, civil servants order these things. But isn’t it interesting how the Tories are quite prepared to go back many years all to cover up how much they’re spending on biscuits. It’s not usual for Pickering (sic) and his entourage in that department to act politically but, you know, you’ve got to take that as part of the political game. So go out and buy a pack of biscuits and send them to Eric.

DM: Okay, well it’s always good to discuss the major issues of state with you, Lord Prescott, biscuits and pens we ended on there. Very good to see you, thank you very much indeed.