Murnaghan Interview Lord Jack McConnell, former First Minister & Leader of Scottish Labour

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: The Labour party in Scotland is in a bit of a crisis.  The leader of Scottish Labour, Johann Lamont, quit on Friday with a stinging attack on her own party.  She said some Labour MPs in Westminster treat the Scottish party like a, quote unquote, ‘branch office’.  So where now for the Labour party in Scotland?  I’m joined from Edinburgh by Lord McConnell, who was of course a former First Minister of Scotland and a former leader of the Scottish Labour party.  So Lord McConnell, it’s hard to believe isn’t it that last month your party was on the winning side in the independence referendum, now here it is in disarray.

LORD McCONNELL: Well Dermot, you and I stood outside Holyrood that morning and spoke about what might happen next and I don't think either of us could have predicted that this is what would happen next.  Frankly it’s an outrageous situation.  Clearly the Labour party had to have a significant debate about the way forward after the referendum and revitalise its vision and its values for the years to come but for this situation to develop over these last two weeks is completely unacceptable.  Answers are demanded of the leadership and the way that they have handled it but also we need to resolve the outstanding issues in advance of electing someone who can now take us forward.

DM: Well you talk there, Lord McConnell, about outstanding issues and I’ve got to ask you, do you believe a lot or indeed everything that Ms Lamont said is correct, her analysis?

LORD McCONNELL: Well I think she can speak for herself.  Whatever criticisms or praise people may have had for Johann as a leader, I think people see her as a very honest person so I am in no position to contradict anything she has said but I think there is a central issue here which is that three years ago after a series of difficulties, over a series of election campaigns, it was agreed by the Labour party that the Scottish Labour party leader would be in charge of the party organisation in Scotland.  Now it is clear from what has happened in these last ten days that that is not the case and that issue needs to be resolved and resolved quickly otherwise the Scottish Labour party is not going to be able, no matter how good its vision or its values, it is not going to be able to function properly and it is not going to be able to win support again in Scotland.

DM: So your message is clear, endorsing Johann Lamont, your message to Mr Miliband is you have to treat us as an autonomous party and we are not longer, or never were, a branch office of Labour?

LORD McCONNELL: Well certainly when I was First Minister, Dermot, there was never any question of any interference in policy, I wouldn’t have stood for it anyway but there was never any question of that in my relationship with Tony Blair but I think there has always been an issue about the organisation of the party in Scotland and where the ultimate authority for that lies and it cannot lie with the leader of the UK party.  In the new modern Scotland it has to lie with the leader of the Scottish Labour party and I am calling today on Labour’s Scottish Executive Committee that meets this afternoon to discuss the way in which to prepare for a leadership election, to suspend that process until that point is clarified.  There is no point in us electing a leader, no matter how talented they are, no matter how good a communicator they are, no matter how smart they are intellectually on policy and politically, there is no point in electing that leader if that leader does not have the authority that they need  to carry out the job and I hope this afternoon that Labour’s Scottish Executive Committee will take heed of that and take the action that’s required and take it quickly.

DM: It sounds to me, Lord McConnell, as if you require more than verbal guarantees on that on sorting out who controls what, you need to hear from the national, the UK Labour leadership that we understand that message that you in effect run your own show.

LORD McCONNELL: I want this written down, I want it to be without dispute for the future and I want it done quickly.  It is outrageous that what was apparently agreed three years ago appears either not to have been implemented or it is now totally undermined by the actions over these last few days.  This must be sorted out or the Scottish Labour party is not going to be the fighting force that is needed in Scotland, not just for the Labour party, this is not about the Labour party, this is about the hundreds of thousands of people that we represent in Scotland and being able to represent them properly, carry forward policies, a vision for Scotland that will transform our country and move us on from a sterile constitutional debate into a debate about the future of the people of Scotland and what matters for them.

DM: And if it isn’t sorted out, I mean there’s only six months and a bit to go to the general election, if this isn’t sorted out and you say in your own words there, Labour does not become a considerable fighting force again, it could cost Scottish Labour seats at the general election.

LORD McCONNELL: Well we are in serious danger here of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.  Having won the referendum, having secured the resignation of Alex Salmond after seven years as First Minister where he had one objective that he failed to achieved, with an SNP which has members of its Scottish parliamentary group that have left to join other parties, this should have been an amazing opportunity for Scottish Labour to set out its vision and values for Scotland, to set out the policies that people in Scotland are demanding to improve their lives and to take them forward and win not just an election in 2015 in the UK but to win back in 2016 the Scottish Parliament as well.  We are in serious danger of snatching from the jaws of that victory and it really is time for all of those in positions of responsibility to get a grip, to sort out this issue of authority once and for all and then for us to have a debate and the election of a new leader who can take us forward, not thinking about the internal workings of the Labour party but with a vision to be First Minister of Scotland and help change this country for the better.

DM: And who for you, Lord McConnell, ideally would be the next leader?

LORD McCONNELL: Well I would like to see three or four candidates. I think it’s essential that we have a real debate and I think Scottish Labour in opposition these last seven years has struggled to articulate a vision for Scotland that can motivate and inspire the people of Scotland.  I want to hear people say that they don’t just want to be leader of Labour but they actually want to be First Minister, they want to do something with the country and not just the party and I would like to see three or four candidates, perhaps some from the past, some from the future, some old, some young and perhaps at least one from Westminster and at least one from Holyrood.  Let’s get some people out there, let’s hear the debate and choose the best person to take us forward.

DM: Okay, Lord McConnell, Jack McConnell, thank you very much indeed.