Murnaghan Interview with Caroline Lucas, Green MP, 27.09.15

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now then, while the Labour party conference is underway in Brighton, another party is meeting just down the coast in Bournemouth.  The Green Party is holding its annual conference there and they have been discussing the challenge posed by the new Labour leader.  Well the Green Party MP Caroline Lucas joins me now from Bournemouth and it is all rather strange because as a Brighton MP there you are in Bournemouth and Labour are on your turf.  To be rather clunky about this, are they policy wise on your turf as well?  

CAROLINE LUCAS: No, I don't think they are in the sense that the Green Party still has something very distinctive clearly to bring to the table which is the whole lens of climate change, the urgency with which we need to be tackling the environmental crisis.  Similarly there are plenty of areas where we agree with Jeremy and we are delighted for example that he is now talking about bringing rail back into public ownership, that’s something I’ve had two Private Member’s Bills down precisely to try to achieve that so if Labour is going to swing behind that and support it that’s wonderful but basically what we need to see I think is more collaboration between progressive parties so that we can get rid of this horrendous Conservative government which is so unpopular.

DM: But some of your members are taking the view they are better to do that within Labour.  You have been losing members over the last few weeks haven’t you?  

CAROLINE LUCAS: We’ve lost some members but do you know what, there is always a churn in politics. People don’t join one part anymore and stick with it forever like they used to in the old days, there is constantly flexibility and churn and I feel quite confident that some of those people will come back to us.  We are still gaining more members than we’re losing which is the important thing and I think people recognise that the Greens do have a very distinctive position on the political spectrum because what we’re talking about and none of the other parties are is the importance not just of social justice but of environmental justice as well, in other words how do we make sure that we live on a planet of finite resources in a way that is just and equitable but also that is genuinely sustainable.  

DM: Okay, let’s get on to that turf and Labour are on that.  I’ve just been talking to Lisa Nandy there, energy shadow frontbench representative, she is more or less saying that.  

CAROLINE LUCAS: Well if she is I’m delighted and what we need to see from Labour under Jeremy Corbyn is a U-turn from the fracking that they were supporting before.  If they are now going to be against fracking I’m delighted.  If they are going to rule out nuclear power no one would be more delighted than I am so I think the jury is out slightly because clearly there are still some battles to be had inside the Labour party but what the Greens are offering is a consistent unified position.  We have been against nuclear power ever since we first came into existence, our position against fracking is very well known and our very positive policies around community energy, about properly investing in energy efficiency to get people’s fuel bills down – those are things we are bringing to the political debate and have been for many decades and I think what you get with the Green Party is what you see.  In other words, politicians unified behind a really positive agenda which has been something that has been at the heart of what we’re about since we were very first formed.

DM: Okay, so you are hoping to hear from Labour, as they are sorting out their policies on so many things, on those environmental issues but on the key questions about the economy and austerity you are in lock step aren’t you?  

CAROLINE LUCAS: We very much agree with the criticism from Jeremy Corbyn, from John McDonnell, about the way the government has dealt with the economic crisis, the idea that the best way to do that is by having widespread austerity is something the Greens have been opposing right from the very start so I come back to what I said before, that if people really want a party that they know has always been anti-austerity, that has always been pro-environment, then that party is the Green Party.  Having said that, I would be delighted to work alongside a progressive Labour party if that’s what Jeremy can create and I am really excited to hear him talk about electoral reform, about a fairer voting system.   He has given Jon Trickett, one of his Shadow cabinet members, the complete remit to look at constitutional reform so we look forward to working with him, with working with John McDonnell who has also said he is now in favour of a fairer voting system, to make sure that we can have a politics which is fit for the 21st century where Greens, Labour, other progressives, can work together for a better future.  

DM: Okay but on the economy, it is often said, you’ll have heard this before haven’t you, the Green Party, we have talked there about the environment and it is all about future generations, not saddling them with even more climate change and warming of the environment so it’s about the future.  When it comes to the economy, why doesn’t that apply to your attitude towards debt, saddling future generations with trillions and trillions of pounds of that?

CAROLINE LUCAS: Our position on austerity is not that we think that debt is something fine to have, far from it. Our starting point is how do you get rid of debt in a sustainable way and we know that the best way to do that is to get people back into jobs, getting them paying their taxes back into the Treasury, that is the way to get rid of debt not by slashing public services and throwing people out of work.  

DM: And we’d better touch on the climate change summit in Paris, you believe Britain should really lead the way and push the rest of the world for some binding restrictions on particularly CO2.

CAROLINE LUCAS: Absolutely, Britain must lead the way on this but right now sadly we’ve got a Tory government that is taking in a completely reckless approach to environmental policy.  Just over the past weeks and months we’ve seen them slash support to solar industry creating devastation in that industry, losing thousands of jobs.  We’ve had the head of the CBI, the Confederation of British Industry, begging the government to change course on that so right now what we need to see is real leadership from this government where we’re not seeing it and that is not only bad for the environment, it’s bad for the economy and jobs as well.

DM: Okay, Caroline Lucas, good to talk to you, thank you very much indeed.