Murnaghan Interview with Diane Abbott, MP, Shadow Health Secretary, 4.09.16

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now while Theresa May attends her first G20 summit, back here she is facing the first big political test of her premiership after junior doctors announced four five day strikes over the coming months. The row about their pay and conditions has escalated into the worst industrial relations dispute in the history of the National Health Service.  Well joining me now is the Shadow Health Secretary Diane Abbott, and a very good morning to you Ms Abbott.  So senior doctors are saying the junior doctors have gone too far with these numbers of strikes.

DIANE ABBOTT: Some of them, some of them are saying that but other Royal Academies like the Paediatric Academy and other Royal Academies are not saying that and are supporting the junior doctors because everyone knows the junior doctors don’t want to strike.  I think they have been put in a position where they feel they have no option and I would put the responsibility for this really serious state of affairs down to Jeremy Hunt and his mishandling of the dispute.

DM: But just on that, the scale of this, the escalation of this dispute, five consecutive days, the damage that is going to do to patients, do you support that?  Do you think that is a proportionate respond?

DIANE ABBOTT: I think that they don’t want to strike, I think that what we need to do is for Jeremy Hunt and the junior doctors to get round the table and I am still hoping that the strike won’t happen.

DM: Okay but if it does, is it the right amount of time?  Patients will surely suffer, they’ll suffer simply by having operations and procedures postponed.  

DIANE ABBOTT: It’s not for me to tell the BMA how to conduct its dispute but they are very real issues and Jeremy Hunt has mishandled the dispute.  For instance he was claiming that they didn’t work at weekends, he’s been talking about a seven day a week NHS and we now find out that his own officials told him that they can’t even fund a five day a week NHS, there isn’t the money or the staff to provide the seven day a week NHS he’s talking about.  

DM: That is a pretty powerful argument but you said you’d be out on the picket lines with them, you’ll support them.  

DIANE ABBOTT: I still hope that the strike won’t happen but if the strike does actually happen and there are picket lines, yes I’ll be on the picket line with junior doctors because do you know what, this isn’t about money, this is about the future of the NHS and there is no more important issue if you are Shadow Secretary of State for Health.  

DM: Does it also though key into the Corbyn led Labour party at the moment in that there are many forms of political action, not just parliamentary routes to power, there are other routes to power, there are other actions that can be taken and this is one of them?

DIANE ABBOTT: No, come on.  The public, the most recent poll of the public on this dispute shows the majority of the public supports the junior doctors because they understand, as I understand, that they wouldn’t for the world want to strike if they didn’t feel that they had any option and I think the public will understand why individual politicians want to support them.

DM: But we hear about, from the legions of new people who have joined up, who have paid their £3 and more to be members of the Labour party, that it is about social action now as well as parliamentary action.  

DIANE ABBOTT: I am a long standing parliamentarian and I have been using parliament as a way of governing and arriving at political decisions.  Of course you have to have campaigns outside of that, the anti-apartheid campaign campaigned for many years and was eventually successful.  In the end you can’t be an MP as long standing as I am not believe in the parliamentary process.

DM: Okay but it is twin tracked, it’s multi tracked.

DIANE ABBOTT: This is a society where people have always campaigned on issues, green issues, feminism, LGBT rights and it there is no contradiction between that and believing in parliamentary politics.

DM: And just on this issue of the NHS and the leadership battle going on in the party, do you think Owen Smith is slightly compromised then by his past, having worked professionally in, you call it the lobbying industry, for a pharmaceutical company?

DIANE ABBOTT: Well it’s not for me to comment on Owen Smith’s history but I think the Labour party electorate will look at it and judge for themselves.

DM: And what judgement would you make?

DIANE ABBOTT: I think it’s for the Labour party electorate to make a judgement.  My concern now is calling to Jeremy Hunt not to impose the contract, I’m calling on Jeremy Hunt to get around the table with the junior doctors.

DM: Okay, let me pivot then into what happens with the Labour party.  The polls are all showing Jeremy Corbyn winning again by another landslide, presumably then what happens?  Is it going to be healed or does it stay the same way?

DIANE ABBOTT: I’m not one for counting my chickens before they’re hatched.  I think Jeremy’s campaign is going well but we have to see what happens.  If Owen Smith wins then people like myself will be supporting Owen Smith, albeit from the back benches I suspect but if Jeremy wins I think what the party wants and what Labour party supporters want is Jeremy having won his second leadership election in less than 12 months, that people unite behind him.

DM: So do you think that a lot of those MPs who resigned, and there is a lot of talent now on the back benches, do you think they’ll be tempted to come in from the cold?  Will Jeremy Corbyn be in that mood, will his supporters be in that mood?

DIANE ABBOTT: Oh Jeremy very much, if he wins Jeremy wants to press the reset button and reach out to all parts of the parliamentary Labour party.  He wants to unify the party so that we can take the fight to the Tories and I think that’s actually what party supporters want.  

DM: Do you think that’s what’s going to happen because one other scenario is that the party splits or semi-splits, that there becomes a separate organisation within the parliamentary party that has separate offices and all kinds of things and becomes the official opposition.

DIANE ABBOTT: There will be no split, there will be no split and in order to have a different opposition in government, Jeremy’s opponents would literally have to set up a brand new party and I don't think that’s going to happen at all.  I’m hoping that everyone will listen to the Labour supporters and unite behind whoever is elected leader.

DM: Let me ask you about the former Shadow Chancellor, not necessarily about his dancing performance although you can express a view on that if you like, Ed Balls has been saying today that he thinks it was a catastrophic mistake, this three quid membership introduced by Ed Miliband which of course has led to the election of Jeremy Corbyn.

DIANE ABBOTT: Well there is no love lost between Ed Balls and Ed Miliband and that might explain why he’s saying that.  We now have a party of fully paid up members of half a million, that has to be a success story.

DM: A success story but there are those who think it was, Ed Balls has articulated it now he is outside the parliamentary party, Ed Balls has articulated that he thinks it was a catastrophic mistake.

DIANE ABBOTT: It cannot be a mistake to build a party and that’s what empowered people to get involved in the last leadership election with the £3 membership, that’s what it was about.  It’s about building a party which is so important because only with a strong party can you then go out into the community and win the Labour [inaudible].

DM: Moving forward, we’ve got the Green Party now with two leaders, joint leaders, they are going to come on both of them and talk to me about the future.  One of the points they are putting forward though is some kind of progressive alliance with the Labour party, perhaps the Liberal Democrats as well and in certain constituencies, marginal constituencies, standing one candidate between you.  Could you ever see that happening?  The Labour party might be standing two itself!

DIANE ABBOTT: No, we’re not going to be standing two.  I know some of my colleagues would be very opposed to that kind of deal but obviously we’ve got to look at all sorts of constitutional issues in the coming period.

DM: So you believe there’s a possibility of that happening?

DIANE ABBOTT: I think as a party we want to be looking at a number of constitutional questions but I would be very cautious about that sort of alliance.

DM: Okay and lastly could I just ask you about Keith Vaz, the Chair of the Home Affairs Select Committee, allegations being made about his private life in some of the Sunday papers today, do you think he’s made the right decision to stand aside whilst this is investigated?

DIANE ABBOTT: I’ve known Keith for over 30 years, this must be a dreadful time for him and his family, his wife and his two children and I’d rather not comment.

DM: Okay, Shadow Health Secretary, thank you very much indeed, Diane Abbott there.