Murnaghan Interview with Douglas Carswell MP, UKIP, 18.09.16

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: The new UKP leader Diane James has put on a show of unity with the party’s only MP, Douglas Carswell, hours after Nigel Farage accused Mr Carswell of trying to destroy the party.  In the last major set piece of the UKIP conference Ms James and Mr Carswell appeared together on stage despite Mr Farage accusing the Clacton MP of sniping from the sidelines and he questioned his commitment to the new leader.  Well to answer that Douglas Carwell joins me now, very good morning to you Mr Carswell.  Well the cat is out of the bag now isn’t it?  For the some months and indeed years you and I have been having discussions about your relationship with Mr Farage and you are far away from being friends.

DOUGLAS CARWELL: It is hardly news that there are differences of opinion between me and Nigel, differences of opinion over how to win votes in a general election, differences of opinion over how to win the referendum and I would say the outcome of both the general election and the referendum I think rather vindicates my idea that you need to be upbeat, optimistic and inclusive in order to win over swing voters but you know, what you saw yesterday wasn’t a show of unity …

DM: Are you saying UKIPs success has been despite Mr Farage and not because of him?

DOUGLAS CARWELL: Not at all.  There is undoubtedly a huge kudos to him from taking us from being 2 or 3% in the polls to being 10% in the polls but we were unable to … Once we had people’s attention we were unable to persuade them to vote for us in sufficient numbers where it mattered.  There was if you remember the shock and awful strategy in the run up to the general election, I think that cost us something like one in three votes after the high water mark at the end of the Rochester by-election.  We could have had half a dozen to a dozen Members of Parliament if we had got the six months strategy in the run up to the general election right.

DM: There were arguments that you were having with Mr Farage at the time?

DOUGLAS CARWELL: Let’s not revisit the past.  What you saw yesterday wasn’t a show of unity, it was genuine unity because we have a fresh faced leader who has some experience of fighting a by-election, she very nearly won.  She has that unique, almost unique quality among party leaders of being able to see herself how others see her and I think because of that self-awareness and that different tone and that optimistic, upbeat approach, I think that we’re going to see some real breakthroughs for UKIP.

DM: But until you appeared on that stage how long was it since you exchanged words with Ms James?  And I don’t mean good morning Douglas, good morning Diane.

DOUGLAS CARWELL: Since the referendum.

DM: So three months, you hadn’t spoken to her for three months?

DOUGLAS CARWELL: I’ll be honest, I was so exhausted after the referendum that I …

DM: It was a long time to be exhausted.  

DOUGLAS CARWELL: It was a long campaign, it took us many, many years.  I went basically back to my Clacton constituency, switched off my mobile phone and focused on my constituents.

DM: It’s not going to wash, is it?  Three months though, you must have had, you could have been able to have a conversation.

DOUGLAS CARWELL: I don’t think I was on your show for about three months, I was focused on all things Clacton.

DM: You’re always welcome.  So all is sweetness and light you are telling me, as you used to tell me about Mr Farage, with Diane James?

DOUGLAS CARWELL: I don't think I ever pretended that things were … I don't think I ever came on your show and pretended to have agreed with Nigel when I didn’t, I said quite clearly when I didn’t agree with him.  I am fully 100%, 110% I think I said yesterday, behind Diane.

DM: Personally do you get on better with her?

DOUGLAS CARWELL: I get on very well with Diane.  Having both fought by-elections I think we both understand it is not about the certainties that party members and party supporters and the base feel, it is about reaching out beyond the base and I think she gets that in a way that no other party leader does and I think because of that there is a huge opportunity here.  The Labour party is in chaos, Theresa May is tied up with the problems of government, the Lib Dems are on a holiday from history, this is a huge opportunity and with Diane as leader I think we are going to see UKIP doing very well now.  We are going to see a bounce in the polls as people look at us and give us the benefit of the doubt again.

DM: I am just going to read out this direct quotation on the policy mix, you are talking about moving UKIP, now Diane James does but this is what she said after her election: “I want to say to all UKIP supporters wherever you are, immigration, borders, immigrants, asylum seekers, foreign aid, the establishment secure our borders.”  Is that the right mix?

DOUGLAS CARWELL: We absolutely need to focus on making sure that the government delivers on …

DM: That is a lot on immigration and securing borders.

DOUGLAS CARWELL: Hang on, hang on.  Dermot, for many, many months mainstream political parties said that UKIP was out of line on the issue of immigration and Europe.  Now almost everyone bar one or two earlier guests you had on, now accepts that we should leave the European Union, the European single market and now accepts …

DM: But that’s the point, you won that and now you want to move the party on.

DOUGLAS CARWELL: … and now accepts, argues on controlling our borders  We need to move on but that is not suddenly to take our eye off making sure that the Westminster blob doesn’t go back to its groupthink which got us into this mess in the first place.

DM: A blob.

DOUGLAS CARWELL: It is a blob.  

DM: Somebody else we know used to use that phrase, maybe he’ll be making a comeback.  Will you be going back to the Conservative party?

DOUGLAS CARWELL: Absolutely not, I’m having far too much fun.  UKIP is going to break the political cartel in Westminster, it’s a huge opportunity for us.  Look at the state of the other parties, this country is crying out for a credible, optimistic, free market, radical libertarian alternative.  

DM: Good to see you Mr Carswell, thank you very much indeed. Douglas Carswell from UKIP.