Sky News interview with Hyun Hak-bong, North Korea's ambassador to the UK
Sky News interview with Hyun Hak-bong, North Korea's ambassador to the UK – 30.01.14
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: Ambassador, the open letter sent from your country to South Korea early this month talks about foreign forces being wholly to blame for the tragic and disgraceful history of the Korean nation, I take it you mean American forces. Can there be peace on the Korean peninsula as long as American forces remain in the south in your opinion?
HYUN HAK-BONG: Well as long as the United States obstructs the unification of the country, as well as make the Korean peninsula tense, it is not helpful for the United States to remain in South Korea. As you know, the Korean nation is an homogenous nation with the same [plan?] which has lived for centuries, for a long time creating one culture and one nation but it has been split and divided by the United States and the United States creates the station tense all the time by bringing in the military equipment and obstructs the peace and security on the Korean peninsula by pursuing the hostile policy and particularly by threatening DPR Korea with nuclear weapons so I don’t think the United States is helpful unless it abandons its hostile policy against the DPR Korea and gives up the military threat, whether it is conventional or whether it is nuclear.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: But of course South Korea and the United States will see your country as the threat, that’s the problem. You could work together.
HYUN HAK-BONG: It is unilateral insistence. If you look into the Korean peninsula, the main question is the nuclear issue, right. Of course DPR Korea, we have a nuclear deterrent but you should understand why the DPR Korea has chosen the way of having a nuclear deterrent. DPR Korea has been under nuclear threat from the United States, from the early 1950s. During the war, in the 1950s, the United States threatened that they would use nuclear bombs and in 1950s they began to bring all the nuclear weapons into South Korea and you remember, all the successive Presidents of the United States claimed that they would use all options in case of contingency on the Korean peninsula, not excluding nuclear weapons. This is the policy and the United States in action stage nuclear war exercises annually against DPR Korea, so DPR Korea has no option but to have the nuclear deterrent in order to defend the sovereignty of their country and in order to save the security and peace on the Korean peninsula as well as the lives of the people. So ours is just and their insistence is wrong. If there is no nuclear threat is not available from the United States and also the hostile policy of the United States is withdrawn, then it is another matter.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: So if the United States removed the nuclear threat, or at least the nuclear threat as your country sees it, Pyongyang would be willing to get rid of its nuclear weapons would it?
HYUN HAK-BONG: Well if the United States gives up its hostile policy against DPR Korea and does not threaten the DPR Korea with nuclear weapons then the relationship between the two countries could become normalised. In that case, all other issues can be resolved smoothly. When I say all the issues, I mean all the issues concerned by each side will be resolved smoothly.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: But America says if they went into talks again, if they were going to resume the nuclear talks, then your country must stop producing more nuclear weapons. Is your country prepared to do that in order to take the first steps towards talks?
HYUN HAK-BONG: Well you’re saying about pre-conditions put forward by the United States. The United States wants the DPR Korea to actually fulfil its obligations first, in actions they said. The ask us to show the sincerity which we all the time show the sincerity but we cannot perform our obligations first. As you remember, September 19th joint statement which was weighed upon in the six party talks predicted, described that, pinpoints that the United States has a commitment to abandon their hostile policy towards the DPR Korea and they committed that they did not threaten the DPR Korea by military action whether it is by conventional or nuclear war. They didn’t do their, they didn’t perform their obligations but they want DPR Korea to reveal our obligations first. This is a precondition. So the six party talks, we are talking about the resumption of the six party talks, they said in order for the six party talks to be resumed, DPR Korea should move first as you say. But this, we are [inaudible] partners and [inaudible] partners should do what they have committed already. The United States didn’t do anything, what they should do while demanding DPR Korea should do first, so it is unreasonable and that is why we cannot accept their plan.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: Most of this open letter is pre-empting an event that will happen next month in February, the joint military exercises between the South of the peninsula, South Korea and the United States. If those exercises go ahead, will North Korea respond?
HYUN HAK-BONG: I don’t think it is wise to predict the consequence of an event so it is not a matter of urgency. What is important is that the root cause of the tension should be removed, this is more important. We have to think how to remove the cause of the tension on the Korean peninsula.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: But these are annual exercises aren’t they, they happen every year. No weapons are being fired towards your country so there’s no reason to assume they will be fired this year.
HYUN HAK-BONG: The continued military exercises under the pretext of an annual and it is a decisive nature sort of thing, but if you look into the scale and contents of the military exercises they are planning to stage you can understand this is just for aggression against DPR Korea. There are hundreds of thousands of troops are scattered into mobilising the US troops in South Korea of course and the South Korean military as well as the US troops that are stationed on the mainland and in Japan, all of them are involved in that military exercises and if you look into the last years of the military exercises, they have brought in nuclear equipment including bombers and stealth fighters and the B2 as well as nuclear submarines and even they flew the bombers over the Korean peninsula and they practised bombing nuclear bombs on the territory of the DPR Korea.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: But your country practised the invasion of an airport only a couple of days ago.
HYUN HAK-BONG: I beg your pardon?
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: There was a military exercise a couple of days ago.
HYUN HAK-BONG: What we are talking about is not ordinary military exercises, we are making an issue of the aggression and military exercises for aggression which was conducted in collusion with the foreign forces. That is why the proposal, the important proposal made by the National Defence Commission, said that if what they call co-ordination and co-operation are so precious and valuable for the South Korean authorities, they would do better to conduct the military exercises in secluded land or in the United States, far away from the territory and air and land of DPR Korea. We are not opposing ordinary military exercises but military exercises to invade DPR Korea.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: So there is some indication that this year America may not send B52 bombers, it might not send an aircraft carrier or a nuclear submarine to take part in the exercises. If it doesn’t send those pieces of equipment is that acceptable? Is that a step forward?
HYUN HAK-BONG: No, no, we already received information, it is already public that the military units that are taking part in the joint military exercises are already allocating the targets. The targets are the main subjects of the DPR Korea and even what they call around the landing operation, code name Key Resolve and Foal Eagle, they say the landing operation purpose is to capture the capital Pyongyang. So this is a very aggressive nature, that is why we call it military exercises of aggression against the DPR Korea and it is just a pretext for nuclear attack on DPR Korea.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: But you blamed the United States presence for being a barrier to peace and reunification of the peninsula, these military exercises are carried out by the Americans and by the South Koreans which suggests there are at least some people in the south of the peninsula who are opposed to reunification.
HYUN HAK-BONG: That is why the National Defence Commission made a very important proposal to make the favourable climate for improved north/south relations. It proposed halting all acts of slandering the other side, in this regard we officially propose South Korea to stop all acts of slandering from the day before the lunar New Year and at the same time we propose halting all acts of aggression for securing peace and security on the Korean peninsula and number three, we propose to take the measure, to take a practical measure to prevent the Korean peninsula to be inflicted upon by the [inaudible].
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: If you are really serious, and you are a diplomat, you have to look at the long game, if you are really serious you will turn a blind eye, you will ignore the military exercises if they go on because of the greater good in the long term.
HYUN HAK-BONG: What do you mean the exercises?
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: You have said, Pyongyang has said you will halt acts of slander and military aggression but it seems to me that the condition is that the military exercises next month don’t go ahead but as a diplomat you must recognise that if the military exercises do go ahead, it might be worthwhile your country just allowing them to go ahead for the long term good.
HYUN HAK-BONG: Well our important proposals made by the National Defence Commission is not for camouflaged peace initiative, it is the expression of sincerity towards making the reconciled and co-operative and improve the relations between the north and south. You know, the north/south relationship is very important in terms of creating a good atmosphere and creating good situations in Asia Pacific. When the north/south relations are bad, the relations in Asia Pacific is affected and the rest of the world, that is why the experts in many countries are now expressing great concern at the pending military exercises, the joint military exercises by the United States and South Korea, codenamed Key Resolve and Foal Eagle. They said it will bring about only tension in the Korean peninsula which is not favourable for not only the Korean peninsula but Asia Pacific and the rest of the world. That is why our respected leader in his new address clarified and made it clear that it is high time to put an end to the conflict between the North and South and he has particularly said we will join hands with anybody who opts to give priority to nation and who wishes for unification regardless of his or her past. We will strive more for better relations between the North and South so it is high time that South Korea stop or cancel the military exercises. It is advisable for the international community to try hard to prevent the subsequent dangerous military exercises which is no good for anybody and which is undesired by anybody.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: Would you allow United Nations weapons inspectors into the country to inspect your nuclear plant? Transparency?
HYUN HAK-BONG: Well, you know, as I told you, our nuclear deterrent is not to strike the others, it is a means of an instrument for the prevention of nuclear war on the Korean peninsula and as for the inspection of the nuclear facilities at DPR Korea is another question. It was discussed in talks before but these talks have stopped to function so IEA or international committee has no reason to come to the DPR Korea for inspection and they have no right and no obligation to show our nuclear activities to do.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: Just one more question on relations between North and South Korea. South Korea has proposed family reunions and probably at some point in the middle of February, is that something that North Korea will accept? Is that something North Korea will take part in?
HYUN HAK-BONG: Well as a matter of fact it is the DPR Korea initiative to arrange the meeting of the separated families and relatives. The Central Committee of the Red Cross Society of DPR Korea proposed to arrange that reunion of separated families which was suspended last year due to the unfavourable conditions and situations by the South Korea but we said that under the framework or in order to implement the practical measures set forth by the National Defence Commission through the proposal, the Red Cross Society said we are prepared to arrange and we proposed to the South Korean Red Cross Society to arrange the reunion of separated families. It is said that the timing would be the time after the new lunar New Year when the cold weather turns warm for the elders and it designated the place as Kumgang Mount Resort which was agreed upon by the North and South before. As for the practical and exact date, it could be exchanged and discussed between the two sides so I think …
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: So your country will be a part of it?
HYUN HAK-BONG: Yes, we are now working on that.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: I wanted to move on to the other topics I wanted to talk about, particularly something that has been in the news in this country and elsewhere a lot over the last couple of months and that is the execution of Kim Jong Un’s uncle, Jang Song Thaek. What did he do wrong?
HYUN HAK-BONG: Well Jang Song Thaek did lots of crimes. He made anti-party, anti-government crimes and as well as he abused his power in hindering the national economy and hindering the efforts for national economy and improving people’s living standards. He made lots of crimes in life, he spend 4.6 million euro in 2009 alone so he made tremendous crimes against the government, against the people, against the country. So the last meeting of the Politbureau of the Central Committee of the Workers Party of Korea made an issue of him. Actually our party pardoned him on several occasions when he made the same, the wrong doings in the past but this time his crimes is beyond level, is beyond the red line.
ALISTAIR BUNKELL: And so he was executed?
HYUN HAK-BONG: So the last meeting of the party handed over to the legal system so the special military court of the Ministry of State Security put him on trial, he contest, he didn’t know what he did wrong and according to Article 60 of the Criminal Court of the DPR Korea he was executed.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: How?
HYUN HAK-BONG: According to the laws by the criminal court, he was sentenced to death.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: But how was he executed because that has been, okay there have been some very wild reports that he might have been fed to the dogs.
HYUN HAK-BONG: No!
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: Can you clear it up? How was he executed, was he shot?
HYUN HAK-BONG: He was shot to death.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: What about his family?
HYUN HAK-BONG: Well the mass media, particularly the South Korean Japanese mass media which against the DPR Korea in propaganda spread these kind of rumours that his family and many people are executed, sort of thing. This is the political propaganda by our enemies.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: So his family have not been executed?
HYUN HAK-BONG: That is a fabricated report that does not deserve my comment.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: They are alive? He was the one who should be punished and not them.
HYUN HAK-BONG: I know he was punished but if his family is punished or not, I don't know.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: I just wonder that for everything that he did wrong, he is your leader, Kim Jong Un’s uncle, he was his mentor we are led to believe, what does it say about your leader’s authority that he has been challenged?
HYUN HAK-BONG: He is not mentor. You know, South Korea and Japan described him as a reformist or mentor sort of thing, but he was not that type of person. He was not that kind of guy. He was a person in high position but he abused the power but our punishment is applied to anybody, regardless of his high official position or low position, low is the same, low is one. It is applied in the same way to anybody.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: It is a very extreme punishment though. For those of us living in this country, you’ve lived in this country for a number of years, it is an extreme form of punishment.
HYUN HAK-BONG: Well each country has its own system. I know the European Union as well as some European countries does not have that penalty system, they are opposed to it but still many countries that use the death penalty, it’s up to them. Each country has a different legal system and we have our legal system, so if the crimes are so high and treason, then he should be punished regardless of who he is.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: You talk about how it doesn’t matter if you are at the top of society or the bottom of society in your country, there is a legal system to punish. That legal system involves sentencing people to labour camps.
HYUN HAK-BONG: Well those guys made the wrong against the government needs to be punished but we don’t have labour camps, actually we have education camps, not camps, education place. But the United States, South Korea, Japan and the other Western countries say that we have labour camps but that is not true.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: But you won’t allow journalists from outside to explore the country for themselves, to see whether or not there are camps or not camps. I find it hard to know how you are expecting the outside world to believe this.
HYUN HAK-BONG: We don’t have labour camps. How can we introduce or allow the journalists to go and see the labour camps?
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: If a journalist from your country came to London they could get a train to Scotland and Wales, they could go wherever they pleased. That wouldn’t be the case for me.
HYUN HAK-BONG: No, what I’m saying is if the journalist wants to conform or investigate whether there is a labour camps as indicated by the others, this is not the way that journalists come, to come and visit. Journalists as you know, [Mr Pang Yu] promoting the understanding between the two countries by showing what is going on there or what is going on here and there, so it is not moral for journalists to use it for political purpose.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: One man who has been through your judicial system is in prison at the moment in your country, is the American Kenneth Bae. There was a press conference very recently that he was at, is that a step towards his freedom?
HYUN HAK-BONG: Well he called a press conference and he said that in recent days misinformation are spread with regard with him. He said some mass media link him and say that DPR Korea is human rights abuser and Kenneth Bae was abused and hard treated by the DPRK, so he called for the conference and made it correct. He said that the Vice President of the United States said he has not made a crime against DPRK, he is not guilty and his own sister also said he is not guilty so he said he already informed the government of the United States and his family that he did something wrong, he made a crime against DPR Korea but he is now receiving fair treatment though he spent 15 months in Pyongyang. When he is sick he received medical treatment and he was given access to the Swiss Embassy which represents the United States on a consular issue. He said this is normal, normal going on but if the media in some countries are spreading such misinformation it makes it more difficult, he said that. So he said please calm down, I’m okay, I am a criminal, I am serving but he pleaded for efforts by the government of the United States and his family for his release. But you asked whether he is released or not, he would be released when he has finished his term, he was sentenced to 15 years of hard labour so when he finished his term as in law, there is no reason not to release him.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: So he is doing hard labour?
HYUN HAK-BONG: Not really hard labour, he is receiving medical treatment now.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: But he was sentenced to 15 years hard labour in a labour camp.
HYUN HAK-BONG: Yes. No, not in a labour camp, we don’t have labour camps. He was sentenced to 15 years hard labour but I don’t know the level or the extent of the hard labour work, what the hard labour is about but hard labour is ultimately hard labour.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: He pleaded for his country to do more to secure his release, that would suggest there is a possibility that he could be released early, before his 15 years and the suggestion that perhaps your country is open to some negotiations?
HYUN HAK-BONG: Well, you know, the legal system, I cannot say about the legal system, I cannot interfere in the legal system. When the law or when the adjustment is done then it’s done. Sometimes there is occasions for pardon but I don’t know and I cannot predict that Kenneth Bae will be pardoned or not. He should finish his term, that is all, in accordance with the crimes that he made against DPR Korea.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: Just finally I want to return to the open letter and to the New Year’s address which calls for peace on the peninsula and signs of aggression to halt. Can you put a timescale on any of this, can you suggest how long it might take for, well, reunification in your eyes or perhaps peace in other people’s eyes?
HYUN HAK-BONG: Well it is the consistent policy of the government of DPR Korea to improve the inter-Korean relations and to develop reconciliation and co-operation between the North and South. When the whole Korean peninsula, whether they are in the North and South, are formally united in terms of wishing for reunification and striving for all reunification, the day of reunification will come all year I think. So for this to come, the important proposal made by the National Defence Commission is very important in that regard. Our respected leader, Marshall Kim Jong Un, made a bold proposal that we are to join hands with anyone, I repeat, join hands with anyone who opts to give a priority to the nation, who wishes for reunification regardless of its past, his own past. This is very important. If all the Korean nation is united, reconciled, co-operative, then the reunification will become all year. As a matter of fact, we have the joint declaration between the North and South, as you know, June 16th joint declaration and October 4th joint declaration between the North and South, which was made at the summit level between the two sides. It shows the way and means for national reunification, so this is the standpoint, this is the basis for reunification for North and South to follow.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: And finally, if the military exercises go ahead with the United States and South Korea, will your country retaliate?
HYUN HAK-BONG: Well as I told you, since our National Defence Commission made a very important proposal to halt all acts of military actions, hostile against the other. It is very important to implement that so I don’t think it is natural to predict what the consequences would be.
ALISTAIR BUNKALL: But you’ve said you want a halt on military action so the inference from that, what I would learn from that is that even if the exercises go ahead, you would keep your word?
HYUN HAK-BONG: Well, you know, the National Defence Commission made a strong and important proposal and following that, the National Defence Commission sent an open letter again urging South Korea to stop all the acts of slandering, to stop all acts of hostile military action so let us see what they respond. Before they respond – of course their initial response is very negative but let us wait and see. I cannot say here the consequences if military action go ahead.