Sophy Ridge on Sunday Interview with Gerard Coyne, UNITE leadership contender, 15.01.17

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SOPHY RIDGE ON SUNDAY, SKY NEWS

SOPHY RIDGE: Moving on to the race for the leadership for the union Unite which has been described as a battle for the heart of the Labour party and here is why.  With one and a half million members and unrivalled political influence the battle for Unite has been seen as a fight for the future of the left.  The biggest union in the country, it’s also the biggest donor to the Labour party and current Unite boss, Len McCluskey, is one of Jeremy Corbyn’s strongest backers. Under his leadership Unite gave £75,000 to Mr Corbyn’s re-election bid last year but his challenger, Gerard Coyne, is seen as a centrist and has attacked his rival for acting as Labour’s puppet master.  Many Labour MPs hope that he can succeed where he has failed and weaken their leader’s grip on power.  Well I’m now joined by Gerard Coyne, the man who is taking on Len McCluskey for the leadership of the Unite union and whoever wins this race is going to have an awful lot in their in tray aren’t they?  You have got the rise of the gig economy, you’ve got strikes, you’ve got Brexit – what’s the role as you see it for Britain’s biggest union?

GERARD COYNE: You’re certainly right, there’s a massive job that needs to be undertaken. We have a really uncertain time over the next two years for our members in terms of the Brexit negotiations and also a really difficult time ahead in terms of a changing economy and we’ve got to focus on that as a trade union and make sure our services are relevant to a world of work that is changing so rapidly at the moment.  

SR: I want to get a bit of a sense of where you stand on some of these strikes because they are obviously affecting so many people across the country, do for example support the Southern strikes at the moment?

GERARD COYNE:  I’m clearly in favour of workers being able to withdraw their labour, that’s a fundamental human right as far as I’m concerned and in democracy the hallmark of a democracy is the ability of people to take strike action.  In terms of the perspective across the country, I think it’s really quite interesting because …

SR: So on Southern does that mean you’re in favour then?

GERARD COYNE:  As I say, in relation to the Southern situation actually this has been a pretty disastrous service and that actually is illustrated by what to my mind seems fairly disastrous management.  Bad industrial relations and disastrous management tend to go hand in hand in my experience.

SR: And how about the BA strikes, are you in favour of those as well?

GERARD COYNE:  In terms of British Airways, there has been a series of negotiations and actually their ability to engage in industrial action should be a human right, I’ve said that already but yes, in terms of the support I would give our members in dispute, of course they are entitled to take strike action.

SR: And what about the London Underground workers strike and the RMT strike on Merseyside?

GERARD COYNE:  The reality is you can go through a list of every single strike is taking place at the moment and say whether I’m in support or not.  I have already explained that in terms of my position I think it is a human right for people to withdraw their labour, it’s the hallmark of a good democracy.  Sadly across the world there are places where you can’t do that and they are not democratic countries so therefore I think actually in terms of workers’ rights to take strike action I’m very clear on that.

SR: So with you in charge of Unite we should expect more strikes then?

GERARD COYNE:  The reality is that actually the perspective very much from  London and the South East round of strikes is not reflected in the rest of the country.  In terms of the region that I’m involved in in the West Midlands there are nowhere near as many strikes as you see down in London.

SR: As part of this programme I have been trying to get out and about as you were saying, about the different perspectives in different parts of the country and talk to some people about their concerns and of course immigration is one that comes up a lot with Brexit.  Theresa May is going to be setting out her vision for what a Brexit should look like next week so do you think it’s right to leave the single market in order to be able to control UK immigration?

GERARD COYNE:  At the beginning of the new year I made my views on Brexit very clear and actually it’s a really good illustration of one of the things I think is wrong with Unite at the moment is that we focus far too much on Westminster politics and not actually enough on the concerns of our members.  Over the next two years it is going to be a really turbulent time for our membership and what we should really be looking to do is to work with employers to tie them down to invest in the UK for the next decade or twenty years; we should be looking at the skillset of the UK economy and certainly I’m committed to making Unite really focus on investing in skills and working with employers and …

SR: I’m still a bit unclear on withdrawing from the single market in favour of controlling immigration.

GERARD COYNE:  In doing that we have to understand that actually the worst case option should be what we’ve planned for and not just hoping for the best so the membership that I’ve spoken to were very clear about their desire to try and restrict borders so actually that is a reality that they feel.  What we need to do is that we use the next two years to invest in the skillset of the country so that we’re ready for Brexit when it happens.

SR: So it’s a red line for you, control of immigration?

GERARD COYNE:  From the members’ perspective and the way that they voted, then clearly they sent a message.  What I do also think is important is that we try and move on from the referendum and actually get over some of the hate crimes and some of the attempts to scapegoat migrants.  We need to progress and actually that’s where my focus is.

SR: I’m keen to move on to the battle for Unite.  Things have already got pretty fiery between you and Len McCluskey and what  you’ve said in the past, I think we can have a quick look at it hopefully on the screen as well, is that our current leader spends too much time and your money playing Westminster politics. ‘I will never try to be the puppet master of the Labour party.’  So do you think that Len McCluskey is Jeremy Corbyn’s puppet master?

GERARD COYNE: I’m saying I won’t play that role for certain and …

SR: The inference is quite clear isn’t it?

GERARD COYNE: I think that there has been too much time spent on the politics of the leadership of the Labour party and not enough time focusing on things that are important to my members – that’s protecting them at work, that’s getting them good terms and conditions and it’s having a union that’s focused on the key issues.  

SR: Sticking with the puppeteering theme, this is obviously a Unite battle and this is what Len McCluskey said about you, ‘Unite’s democracy would not be safe in Gerard Coyne’s hands, Unite is electing a General Secretary not a politician’s puppet.’  Mr Coyne, are you a politician’s puppet?

GERARD COYNE: Absolutely not, the reason I’ve stood for this position and why I’m standing for the General Secretary of Unite is the fact that I want to change the union for the better.  I want to clean up its act, I want to make sure that our members get the service they deserve and I want to run a union that’s fit for the 21st century.

SR: You of course have got your differences of opinion with Jeremy Corbyn on immigration is one of them and Trident I’m guessing is another, did you vote for him in the Labour leadership contest?

GERARD COYNE: I didn’t vote for Jeremy in the Labour leadership contest but actually I work with whoever is the leader of the Labour party if I’m elected General Secretary of Unite, that’s the reality of it.  I know our members do better under a Labour government so whether I personally voted for Jeremy or not is not really at issue here, he is the leader of the Labour party.

SR: And what do you think of the job that  he’s doing?

GERARD COYNE: I think in terms of what is a difficult task at the moment with lots of challenging issues in front of us, you’ve touched on one this morning in terms of the NHS, some of the other areas, Brexit, then obviously in terms of Labour’s ability to succeed and be elected at the next general election then that’s down to the electorate, not the Unite leader, the leader of the Unite union.  

SR: Len McCluskey of course is one of the most, if not the most recognisable face in the union movement and you yourself, let’s be honest, are probably not a household name to most people.  Have you actually got a chance of winning this?

GERARD COYNE: Oh yes, absolutely I have and I firmly believe that I am going to win this election. I think that in terms of the message that I’m sending to our members about cleaning up the union, about making sure that we put control back in their hands and also making sure that we support them at what is an incredibly difficult time and protecting them in the world of work, then absolutely I can win this election.

SR: So who has got more chance of winning then, yourself in this leadership election or Labour at the next general election?

GERARD COYNE: That’s down to the electorate in terms of the general election.  I know what I’m doing to appeal to Unite members and I’m getting lots of support up and down the country so I think I’m going to win in Unite and that’s the most important thing at the moment.

SR: Nicely sidestepped.  Gerard Coyne, thanks very much for your time.