Sophy Ridge on Sunday Interview with Michael Gove MP, 14.05.17

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SOPHY RIDGE ON SUNDAY, SKY NEWS

SOPHY RIDGE: Now joining us in the studio is the former Education Secretary, Michael Gove, hello and thank you for being with us.  Before we start I am keen to get your thoughts as someone who is still very well connected with lots of people in the Cabinet, Jeremy Hunt hasn’t tweeted for five days, he hasn’t been seen in front of the cameras since those NHS cyber-attacks, do you think he’s okay?

MICHAEL GOVE: Yes, absolutely.  Jeremy was actually in Cobra yesterday helping to co-ordinate the response to those cyber-attacks, as Health Secretary he has that managerial responsibility and last week I saw Jeremy on the Robert Peston programme, we appeared together and he was unveiling a very exciting and important mental health initiative.  Jeremy has been and will be an absolutely superb Health Secretary and I think that he’s a real asset to this country and to the government.

SR: So why hasn’t he been anywhere since this huge and very worrying cyber-attack?

MICHAEL GOVE: Because he’s a hands on Health Secretary and it will be his responsibility, and one he’s discharging very well, to deal with the situation that arose but because it’s a crime it was also appropriate that Amber Rudd explained what the steps are as Home Secretary responsible for dealing with crime, in order to try to make sure that the people responsible for this attack are actually tracked down and dealt with.

SR: Fair enough, a hands off Health Secretary and perhaps …

MICHAEL GOVE: Hands on.  

SR: Perhaps hands off when it comes to dealing with the media and hands on when it comes to dealing with cyber-attacks then.

MICHAEL GOVE: I think putting management of the health service first is the single most important thing that any Health Secretary will do.  I know from my time in government that sometimes there would be a request from the media that you might want to accept in order to appear but your first priority is to get things right in your own department, to talk to those people who are responsible for delivering services and to make sure that patients – or in my case parents and pupils – came first.

SR: The big policy announced from the Conservative party today is this pledge to build more council homes, is this another example of Theresa May stealing from the Ed Miliband playbook?

MICHAEL GOVE: No, I don't think so.  We had Alex Salmond on earlier speaking from his increasingly marginal seat in Scotland talking about what he termed a hard right Tory government.  The truth, as your question implies, is very different . Theresa May and her team occupy the mainstream middle ground of British politics and one of the difficulties that we had in the past was that Labour in power didn’t build the number of homes, including the number of homes for rent, that we needed and Theresa is intervening in order to ensure that ordinary working people have the chance not only to have a home to rent but in due course a home to buy as well.

SR: Now you say that Theresa May’s government is all about the middle ground.  Some people would dispute that when it comes to Brexit which of course is one of the big issues of this election, Theresa May promising to take the UK out of the EU, out of the single market.  You must be delighted as someone who was in that Vote Leave campaign because she seems to have swallowed your playbook.

MICHAEL GOVE: Well I am very pleased that Theresa May is taking Britain out of the European Union and I think whether people voted to Leave or to Remain, and I respect the strong and idealistic sentiments that motivated many people to Remain but the question in this election is who do you want across that table from Jean-Claude Juncker, do you want Theresa May providing strong and stable leadership or do you want Jeremy Corbyn?  We have already seen Jeremy Corbyn during the course of this general election campaign trot out a series of nonsensical policies.  He would be a disaster as Britain’s representative in those talks so whatever you want from Brexit, and I personally do want us outside the single market and outside the customs union, whatever you want Theresa May is the person best equipped to deliver it.

SR: Because I wonder whether you ever have a moment of doubt or concern about that because the war of words between Number Ten and Brussels does seem to be intensifying, Theresa May effectively accusing Brussels of meddling in the election and this is what the Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson, said yesterday: “They’re going to play dirty, they’re going to try and bleed this country white with their Bill.”  Do you agree with Boris Johnson that the EU are going to try and bleed this country white?

MICHAEL GOVE: I think it is the case that the EU will put, have put quite a big price tag on our departure, that’s part of negotiation and if you want the best outcome for Britain then you need to have a tough negotiator.  Theresa has been described in the past, indeed on Sky News by Ken Clarke, as “a bloody difficult woman” and Theresa has actually turned that phrase round and said what you need is someone who will be difficult and determined on Britain’s behalf in those negotiations and that’s why I think at this election we can’t afford to take the risk of having anyone else other than Theresa May as our Prime Minister.

SR: But do you accept we will have to pay some money because Boris Johnson seems to imply that it should be the EU who should be paying us to leave?

MICHAEL GOVE: There is absolutely no need for us in law to pay money as we leave.  Now the final details of this negotiation will be up for the Prime Minister and for the Cabinet to agree but in law the House of Lords have stamped out in an authoritative report that there is no need for us to pay a penny when we leave and whatever happens once we’ve left it will be clear that we will be able to take back control of the money that we currently give to the European Union, hundreds of millions of pounds a week.

SR: Now we have been talking a bit about Boris Johnson there, I think it’s fair to say a few eyebrows were raised in Europe when he was made Foreign Secretary. Last year you famously described Boris Johnson saying he cannot provide the leadership for the task ahead.  Are you comfortable with him playing a role in the negotiations?

MICHAEL GOVE: Yes, I am.  Last year of course during the tumult of the leadership election I put myself forward …

SR: I remember it very well. 

MICHAEL GOVE: And therefore by implication I was saying that I thought that I was better than Theresa May.  I’ve now had a chance over the course of the last eleven months or so to look at how Boris and Theresa have performed in their perspective roles and I think Theresa has got every major decision right as Prime Minister and I think Boris has been an asset to the country and to the government as Foreign Secretary.  I think on facing down Russia over its behaviour in Syria, in making sure that we forge strong relationships with the new American administration and also in ensuring that international development money and Britain’s soft power is playing a part in helping to reconstruct Africa and those nations which have been broken by external events, he has shown a strong leadership role and it is also the case that having someone who was a hugely popular champion of the Vote Leave movement there at the heart of government, well I think that’s something that’s all to the good.

SR: David Cameron, someone else who we’ve seen out and about on the campaign trail this week, let’s have a look what he said, a not very coded message for Theresa May: “It’s so important that the Conservatives win and win well so Theresa can stand up to people who want an extreme Brexit”  and he said both here and elsewhere. He is talking about people like you isn’t he, people who want a hard Brexit, out of the single market, key Brexiteers.  Does Theresa May need a big majority so she can stand up to some of those pesky Brexiteers?

MICHAEL GOVE: I think she deserves a strong majority so that her hand can be strengthened in dealing with Brussels but speaking for myself, I don't know whether or not I’m a hard, soft or any other type of Brexiteer.  All I believe in is honouring the mandate that the British people voted for and during the course of that referendum campaign, those of who were arguing that we should leave said the really important thing was that was we take back control of our borders, of our laws, of our money and of the ability to make our own trade deals and Theresa May, in the speech that she gave at Lancaster House, a brilliant speech earlier this year, said that Britain was going to do just that.  So for that reason I strongly support Theresa in these negotiations as Prime Minister and I do agree with David that the stronger her hand, the better the deal that she’ll be able to secure for Britain.

SR: When was the last time you spoke to David Cameron?

MICHAEL GOVE: A while back. 

SR: How long is a while back?  A month?

MICHAEL GOVE: One of the things about private conversations is that they are generally always better kept private so on this occasion – and David is no longer in politics and therefore I will respect his privacy by not talking about that. 

SR: Do you miss him?

MICHAEL GOVE: I think David was an outstanding Prime Minister but I also think that Theresa has shown that …

SR: That’s not quite the question that I asked you.  

MICHAEL GOVE: No, but I think that, if one thinks about politics David did an amazing job as Prime Minister, he ensured that we had a Conservative majority and …

SR: But as a friend do you miss him?

MICHAEL GOVE: Well again I’ll respect the privacy of that relationship because what people in this election want to focus on, I hope, are those candidates who are putting themselves forward and the ideas that they have so of course I look back with respect and I feel enormous affection and respect for David Cameron as an individual and as a politician but a new chapter is opening and that chapter is one in which we are deciding whether or not we want Theresa May to have a strengthened hand and a stronger majority and I agree with David here, that the stronger her majority the better it will be for this country.

SR: Now you have been very loud and clear in this interview with your praise for Theresa May, you are clearly a fan of the work she is doing.  Do you think she is doing a better job than you would have done if you had been elected?

MICHAEL GOVE: Oh yes, completely.

SR: Why is that?

MICHAEL GOVE: Well I think that the proof of the pudding is in the eating.  The demonstration of the way in which Theresa has made all the major calls on Brexit successfully, the obvious popularity that she enjoys, the stability and strength that she’s brought to that role, all of those reflect incredibly well on her judgement and her leadership abilities and so all I can do is take a step back and admire the way in which she has on the economy, on education and on Europe, shown a degree of consistency and clarity as leader.  There’s something else as well, during my leadership run – brief as it was – one of the things that I tried to articulate was the need for the Conservatives to do more for people on average and below average incomes and actually, to be fair to Theresa, she was onto this issue before me and she’s delivered on this issue far more energetically I think than anyone could have expected any Conservative leader could have done and the result of that focus on ordinary working families has been popularity in the polls but also a Conservative party bringing forward proposals including on areas like new council housing, that reflect the interests of the overwhelming majority.

SR: Now you are not the only person in your household unflinching in their support of Theresa May, your wife wrote a column backing up her idea of boys and girls jobs in the house.  Do you carry out any boys jobs, quickly what’s your jobs?

MICHAEL GOVE: In the house? Yes, I do what I’m told. In our home, much as in the country, I am very, very happy that a strong woman is in charge.

SR: A very sensible answer there.  Michael Gove, thank you very much for coming on the show.