Sophy Ridge on Sunday Interview with Paul Nuttall, UKIP Leader, 30.04.17

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SOPHY RIDGE ON SUNDAY, SKY NEWS

SOPHY RIDGE: After a week of would he or wouldn’t he speculation, we now know that the UKIP leader Paul Nuttall is going to stand for election and will be doing it in the seat of Boston and Skegness which is the most eurosceptic place in the country and he joins me now in the studio.  Thanks for being here, you have announced that you’re standing in Boston and Skegness, that’s quite a commute from your house in Stoke isn’t it?  How many times have you been to Boston?

PAUL NUTTALL: A fair few times, I was in Skegness yesterday, I have been there a fair few times, I’ve given speeches within the constituency, spoken to the local councillors.  In the fact the last thing I did when I was UKIP Chairman was to take the UKIP conference to Skegness but as I say, this is the most eurosceptic seat within the country, we’ve got councillors right across the constituency.  The branch were very keen for me to stand in this constituency and I was only too happy to take up their offer.

SR: Well as you have been there so many times you should be thrilled at what we’re going to do next which is a little game, just to test how well you know the seat that you’re going to stand in.

PAUL NUTTALL: Oh really?

SR: Boston or Loston?  All you have got to do is look at the picture on the screen and say whether or not this is a picture of Boston or somewhere else in the country, here’s the first one.  What do you reckon, Boston or not?

PAUL NUTTALL: I don't know, Boston I’d say.

SR: Sorry, that’s Aylesbury town centre.

PAUL NUTTALL: Is that Aylesbury?  Okay.  

SR: I can see the market, you may have been distracted by that but let’s have a look at the next one, Boston or not?

PAUL NUTTALL: Yes, I’d say Boston.

SR: You are correct, that one is Boston, well done.  Number three, how about this, are you looking at Boston or another place in the country?

PAUL NUTTALL: I’d say Boston.

SR: I’m sorry, that’s not Boston that is …

PAUL NUTTALL: Hang on Sophy …

SR: How about this one?  

PAUL NUTTALL: That’s Boston, yes.

SR: Correct, that is Boston, last one, just one more and then we’ll put you out of your misery I promise.  Final one?

PAUL NUTTALL: That is not Boston, no.

SR: Correct, that is not Boston, that is Stoke Minister.  Thanks for being a good sport and playing along, a little bit of homework to brush up on.  

PAUL NUTTALL: Do you know, I want to make a point here.  People often say oh, you have to be from the local constituency and all the rest, this isn’t a council election, this is a parliamentary election …

SR: But people care about local issues as well don’t they?

PAUL NUTTALL: Hang on, the vast majority of MPs I would suggest to you do not actually come from the constituency which they represent.  This is about putting this area on the map, I am a national political figure, I am a national party leader and when I stand up in the House of Commons to represent the seat of Boston and Skegness, people will listen.

SR: I am also keen to talk about your integration agenda which you launched this week, something that has had a lot of scrutiny for numerous reasons.  One point that I am quite keen to raise is why is it that you think that if a white man rapes a white girl, he should get a lesser sentence than if an Asian man or a black man rapes a white girl?  Why is that?

PAUL NUTTALL:  We have obviously had the issue surrounding the rape gangs in certain areas across the country, I would suggest that they should be classed as a hate crime because I think they are targeting specific people, obviously white girls are targeted by these gangs but what I will say and make perfectly clear is that rape should be, there should be a long sentence, people should be punished for it but as I say I do think these should be classed as hate crimes.  

SR: If we look at the law, and I’m going to be specific here, it is Section 145 of the Criminal Justice Act, it currently states that if an offender demonstrates hostility towards the victim based on her race or religious group, it is taken as an aggravating factor in sentencing so as far as I can see, the only change you want to see is actually you are removing the idea of intent and it should just be based on skin colour.

PAUL NUTTALL: Hang on now, obviously these girls are being targeted, I suspect because ….

SR: But that is already covered by the law isn’t it?

PAUL NUTTALL: But I would suggest they should also be classed as a hate crime as well, I think they are being specifically targeted.  If you just look at the amount of rapes that we are seeing across the country by a specific section of a community and they are perpetrated generally against the same kind of girls, I think we have got a real problem that needs to be tackled.

SR: The other thing that you were keen to talk about and address is female genital mutilation.  Abhorrent, clearly, an appalling practice that more does need to be done about but you do want to see mandatory checks on schoolgirls from at risk groups and I am just really a bit puzzled by this.  What exactly do you mean by this?  How do you choose which five year old girl has to effectively drop her knickers in front of …

PAUL NUTTALL:  Hang on, hang on, please don’t put it like that.  That’s what happens in France.

SR: But we have to talk about … I am not trivialising it, I think it is very important to talk about exactly what we are talking about here.

PAUL NUTTALL: This happens in France, okay, it already happens on the continent and they have a far more successful prosecution rate of female genital mutilation.

SR: I am just going to pick you up on that point, what they do in France is that everybody has to do it, you are not just picking out specific groups and there are also questions about how successful it is because what you see is people just having it done later in their life.

PAUL NUTTALL: But there are specific groups who are at risk.  So for example if a young girl is taken to Somalia, particularly during the cutting season in the terms of this country, that is obviously I would suspect is at risk.  Now, look, for example if social services think that a young person has been abused they have the right to enforce medical checks, I would suggest to you that female genital mutilation not only is abuse, it is actually grievous bodily harm. Look, last year alone there were 8500 new cases of FGM and it’s a disgrace that this has been illegal for nearly 30 years in this country and there hasn’t been one single successful prosecution, we are turning a blind eye.

SR: I would think that no one would disagree that it’s ridiculous that the prosecution rate is so low and that this is something that is …

PAUL NUTTALL: We’re turning a blind eye, Sophy.

SR: But I want to talk about how you are proposing to deal with it here.  Are you effectively saying that any girl from a specific African country means that any time she goes to Disneyland with her parents will have to come and have a stranger inspect her genitals when she gets home?

PAUL NUTTALL: No, because they are generally going to other countries to have this done, specifically countries where FGM is commonplace and … hang on, hang on …

SR: So only if they go to a specific country where FGM is done?

PAUL NUTTALL: There are cutting seasons in these countries as well and it is something we’re turning a blind eye to.  What we’ve done is we’ve put forward an agenda to at least try and tackle these issues where the other parties simply want to turn a blind eye.  Do you know the mandatory checks, do you know the first people who suggested this were actually Diane Abbott and Keith Vaz from the Labour party and there was no uproar when they did it.

SR: But you are saying here in your integration agenda that these girls should be put through these checks whenever they return from overseas, now that seems to be different from what you’re saying now which is that it’s if someone is going to a specific country during the cutting season.

PAUL NUTTALL: Yes, I mean obviously we set forward …

SR: So you’re going back on this?

PAUL NUTTALL: I’m not going back at all, we put forward the agenda, of course it will be nuanced when it comes to the manifesto but I don't think it is quite clear that there are certain girls from certain communities who are at risk of this and we have to do something about it.  

SR: Very specifically, are you no longer saying then that all girls from these at risk groups whenever they return from anywhere overseas will have to go through these inspections?

PAUL NUTTALL: I think it is quite clear that there are certain countries if they visit whereby they will return from these countries and there will have to be checks taking place.

SR: But that’s different then, that’s different from what you said …

PAUL NUTTALL: If they go to countries where FGM is clearly commonplace and they return, I think it’s only fair and equitable that they are checked.

SR: Okay, that seems to be a slightly different position from you said.   We’ll agree to disagree on that.  Let’s talk a bit more widely about UKIP.  After the referendum you were on the dizzy heights of around 16% in the polls, now you’re routinely on single figures.  UKIP voters are turning to the Conservatives who they believe are the ones who can deliver Brexit, it’s a pretty depressing picture isn’t it?  It looks a bit like game over.

PAUL NUTTALL: Well do you know, I always expected there to be a fall in the polls for UKIP in the first week of the campaign.  The Prime Minister has had a massive amount of publicity as a result of calling this general election, we’ve probably fallen by three or four percent.  I have to say I think UKIPs future is quite bright.

SR: Is that right?

PAUL NUTTALL: Yes, I do actually, I really do.  I think we have got an election which is now on our turf, we are going to target ruthlessly in this general election, there won’t be a scattergun approach.  We will drill down into local seats and I believe that we will get people over the line and that we will have UKIP representatives in the House of Commons come the election.

SR: A targeted approach, is that a rather positive spin on the fact that you are just not bothering to stand in very many seats?  Can you really see yourself as a serious political party if you are effectively not standing in large swathes of the country?

PAUL NUTTALL: Oh no, no, we’ll be standing in the vast majority.

SR: How many seats are you standing in then?

PAUL NUTTALL: It will be in the hundreds, okay, and it will be far closer to 600 than the 100 that a certain newspaper put out last week.  So in the vast majority of the country you will have the opportunity to go out and vote UKIP, however there will be certain seats – and I am talking tens, not hundreds – where UKIP will be prepared to stand aside for real Brexiteers, not five to midnight Brexiteers or fly by night Brexiteers, people who have campaigned for Brexit all their lives regardless of political affiliation.

SR: So why are you not standing in Ilford North then, because the Conservative MP there backed remain?

PAUL NUTTALL: Sorry, why am I standing …?

SR: Why are you not standing in Ilford North because the Conservative MP there backed remain?

PAUL NUTTALL: Well again that is something which the National Executive Committee of the party will have to look at but I’m talking about seats like Bury North where you’ve got David Nuttall for example who is sitting on a majority of 350 and this is a guy who has campaigned for Brexit all his political life, the last thing UKIP should be doing is standing and ensuring that he loses his seat and we have a remain MP instead.  

SR: You see what this does underline really is that UKIP is a single issue party.  If you are not standing in seats where there is a Brexiteer then that is a pretty clear signal that your party is all about Brexit and that means when Brexit happens there is no use for you.

PAUL NUTTALL: I don’t agree Sophie, obviously we have a full raft of domestic policies.

SR: So why are you saying you are not standing in seats where a Brexiteer is running …

PAUL NUTTALL: Hang on, hang on, because this is a specific Brexit election.  The Prime Minister has called this election because she said that she needs a mandate for Brexit and what we want to do is to ensure we get the kind of Brexit that we want and I believe what the British people voted for on June 23rd and that is a Brexit whereby we have real control of our borders, control of our own finances and we bring democracy back to this country and we will only stand aside in seats where these MPs have stood alongside us for many, many years, people like Philip Hollobone.  

SR: Now you of course failed to win in Stoke, high profile, you put your neck on the line there, you didn’t win.  Now you are going for Boston and Skegness, as you say, the most eurosceptic seat in the country.  If this election is all about Brexit as you say and UKIP are the only ones who can hold the Prime Minister’s feet to the fire, if you fail it is going to be game over isn’t it?

PAUL NUTTALL: No, because regardless of what happens in this election UKIP has got a great future.  I genuinely believe that the Prime Minister won’t get the deal that the British people want, I believe she will begin to back slide and that is why it is dangerous if we end up with a huge Tory majority because she’ll end up with hordes of Tory lobby fodder who will vote any way she says and it will be easier for her to backslide because at the moment she is beholden to around 50 real Brexiteers but UKIPs future will be bright.  She will backslide, she will backslide on our fisheries, I believe in the end she will backslide on freedom of movement and indeed once she gets that whopping majority I think she’ll go over to Brussels and sign the bill for 50 billion for the divorce bill.  That isn’t what British people voted for.  

SR: You are putting your neck on the line though aren’t you by running again and risking failure again, what are you going to do if you wake up the next morning and you’ve lost and you’ve not got any MPs?

PAUL NUTTALL: We will just continue, we will continue because we will know eventually politics will come back …

SR: Will you [inaudible] a new deal?

PAUL NUTTALL: Hang on, listen, I don't think I will be in that situation, I think we will get MPs elected to the House of Commons at this general election but UKIPs future anyway is going to be bright and I promise you, we will go up massively in the polls in the years to come and our membership will rise significantly.  The future’s bright for UKIP.

SR: You said before that even if you lose this election that you are running, this constituency you are running in, you will still stay on as leader.  I’m not entirely sure if I believe you, I’m going to level with you here, I’m not totally sure that I believe you, you strike me as a bit of a reluctant leader anyway, it’s not going to be much fun is it staying on if UKIP do collapse in this election.

PAUL NUTTALL: Do you know what UKIPs got to do, Sophy, and this is what we were going to do over the summer but it has all been put on hold as a result of this general election – it needs to restructure itself at branch level and at county level, it needs to have a new constitution and clearly defined powers for the National Executive and the leader and what not.  It also needs to rebrand and get ready for a post-Brexit world and these are all of the plans that we were going to unveil and that we will unveil actually at Torquay, at the conference in September, so there is lots to do in UKIP going forward beyond this general election.

SR: Rebranding?  Does that mean rebranding itself away from Nigel Farage as well?

PAUL NUTTALL: No, Nigel will be front of house in this general election, he will be on the airwaves and you will no doubt have him on TV shows like this and he’ll be out campaigning with UKIP members.

SR: Okay, Paul Nuttall, thank you very much.