Stand Up and Be Counted: Ask the Leaders with Ed Miliband 2.02.15

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO STAND UP AND BE COUNTED, SKY NEWS

FAISAL ISLAM: Good afternoon, you’re watching a Sky News special, Stand Up and Be Counted and Ask the Leaders, we’re live at Facebook’s London offices and we’re giving young voters the chance to put the party leaders on the spot throughout the day, they’re all here on TV, online and across social media.  Later on this afternoon we’ll speak to the Conservative leader, the Prime Minister David Cameron and the Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg will also be joining us but now it’s the turn of the Labour leader, Ed Miliband.  Welcome Mr Miliband, okay and we have the first question from Larissa.

LARISSA: Hi Ed.  The extent of children’s exposure to over-sexualised content in the media is unacceptable, what will you do in the current electoral term to change that?

ED MILIBAND: I think that’s a really important problem, Larissa and it’s something we do have to look at.  I think there is a responsibility on advertisers, on television programmes, I think that’s where it starts. I think we have to look at issues of default settings on the internet in relation to children and young people but I think most of all there is also a role for parents and there’s a role for parents to make sure that they protect their children from content that they shouldn’t be seeing.  

LARISSA: So how do you intend to instil the knowledge in parents of how to do these things and how to make the differences that will stop children being exposed to such things?

ED MILIBAND: I think in a way it’s partly being able to keep a watch on what your kids are up to as parents.  It’s really hard, I mean my kids are four and five so not yet looking at hopefully the things they shouldn’t be looking at but they are, even at that age, using the iPad, having a look at things so that’s why I think looking at the issues of default settings, parental control and giving parents, warning parents and giving parents proper information about how to avoid their kids being exposed to these things is the way forward but I’d say this also, the internet is a great thing and the freedom of the internet is a great thing and we’ve always got to be sure to protect that.

FI: Let’s bring in someone else on this issue, the freedom of the internet.  Let’s pass it back here.

LUKE: Hi, my name is Luke.  As you were saying there you want to protect the sanctity of the internet and keeping it a free space for people but it is very clear it can go the other way and become a nanny state, what are you going to try and do to avoid that?

ED MILIBAND: I think it’s about that balance and I think it’s about information for parents most of all and it’s about issues like the default settings so there is parental control so you’ve got to choose to lift those parental controls, that’s the way forward I think.

LUKE: So you don’t want it to be a situation where the government enforces a system to prevent internet access but more of an educating the parents and the people, the owners?

ED MILIBAND: Most important is the education and the empowerment for parents, that’s the key for me.  

FI: Okay, let’s move on, second question, Angel.

ANGEL: Hi, so I’m off to uni in September and I know that a lot of young people like me would say that graduate unemployment is something that’s quite scary after we finish uni so I just wanted to know if you get into power what you are going to be doing to tackle graduate unemployment?

ED MILIBAND: What are you going to be studying, Angel?

ANGEL: Law with International Relations.

ED MILIBAND: Great subject.  Look, there’s a couple of things I’d say to you and the first is that I think too many of the jobs in our economy, and I think this does go to the big choice at this election, are zero hour contract jobs, insecure jobs, it’s what I call the race to the bottom so lower skill, lower wage jobs.  I think we’ve got to drive that out in the sense that we’ve got to say that if you are working regular hours then you should get a regular contract and not a zero hours contract and then you’ve got to create the good jobs of the future.  Let me give you one example, a tangible example of where I think the good jobs can come from, take the issue of climate change which I care about a lot.  You might think that is just an environmental issue, it’s not just an environmental issue it’s also a jobs issue.  By leading in renewable technology, by doing the right things, giving companies incentives to invest, that creates great jobs for our young people so let’s ensure we have a race to the top in higher skill, higher wage jobs and not a race to the bottom in low skill, low wage jobs.

FI: Satisfied with that answer, Angel?

ANGEL: Yes, thank you.  

FI: Anyone else?  The gentleman over there.

MAN: How would you encourage graduate jobs outside of London and the south east where most of it is because even though London is a great place to come and work it would be nice if there were more opportunities outside London as well.

ED MILIBAND: Yes, it’s a big issue isn’t it?  I’m an MP in Doncaster and I see this myself.  I think we kind of know what makes for successful towns and cities which is actually having higher educational, college educated people, that’s part of the answer.  Giving proper transport links, that’s part of the answer and there is really one other thing that’s really important, we’re far too centralised in the way and where power is so when it comes to decisions about what matters to local people so much of it takes place in Westminster and in Whitehall.  We’ve heard a lot about devolution to Scotland and Wales, I think it’s about time we had some devolution in England as well.  When I think about my council and the area that I’m in, I want more powers of economic development, transport, skills, the things that will actually create the good jobs, the decent wages that our economy needs.

FI: Last question on this topic.

WOMAN: Hi, my name is Lisette and I’m a reporter on a programme called London 360 which is run by Media Trust and it’s a great scheme which teaches diverse people like myself all the skills needed to become a multi-platform journalist.  Now I chose this scheme because I’ve seen that former reporters have gone on to get secure permanent roles in the industry but one of the things that I see in a lot of schemes for diverse young people is they give a foot in the door but they don’t enable those people to secure permanent roles so I want to know how you think companies can get a balance between ticking boxes and having diversity and getting diverse companies but also providing those permanent secure roles for people.

ED MILIBAND: Is that a foot in the door – I was watching earlier on when you were talking to Natalie Bennett – is this a foot in the door like unpaid internships or do you mean more of a foot in the door than that but not a proper foot in the door if you like?

WOMAN: They may be unpaid, they may be paid, they may be six weeks, they may be two weeks, they are just not permanent job roles so lots of people will jump from scheme to scheme without being able to secure permanent job roles so I just wanted to know how you thought companies can sort of change that culture.

ED MILIBAND: I think there are a couple of things about this.  I think that good work experience, and I am sure there are people here who have had good experience in terms of work experience, is really important but I think there is a place where work experience ends and unpaid internships that are just exploiting people begins and I think we’ve got to look at having some limits on these unpaid internships.  For me the injustice is you can only do it if you can afford it and therefore you are giving a foot on the ladder to one group of people but not another group of people so I think we have got to see whether we can place some limits on these unpaid internships and I also think it goes to your point about temporary and permanent employment.  We have got to do more to encourage companies not to opt for the insecure work, that’s why I say what I say about zero hours contracts where there is a massive growth – by the way, zero hours contracts, low hours contracts so it could be two hours or four hours contracts – so I think part of it is about setting the right regulations to kind of if you like incentivise companies not to go down that road and looking at that crucial issue of unpaid internships.  

FI: Let’s move on to the next issue, we are a bit pushed for time.  Adam?

ADAM: Hi, I was wondering, recently there has been a lot of media coverage on right wing parties and their popularity, are you worried by this at all?

ED MILIBAND: Which parties are you talking about?

ADAM: Things like UKIP and people like that?

ED MILIBAND: I am incredibly proud of the fact that we are open tolerant country.  I am the son of immigrants, my parents came here as refugees from the Nazis and I think that is one of the great things about Britain, that we are open and tolerant.  The view I take about this is that we have got to champion our openness and our diversity but we’ve got to make it work.  Let me give you one specific example where I think it doesn’t work at the moment.  You get a situation where people are being brought here, are paid less than the minimum wage or 15 people being put in a house, now that exploits migrant workers but it also undercuts wages so I think most of the time people’s concerns aren’t based on prejudice, they are based on reality.  When people see that happening they go, hang on a minute, that’s not fair, we’ve got to do something about it so let’s have the openness and tolerance that is brilliant for Britain, it was at the heart of the London Olympics but let’s also make sure we make that vision of the tolerant diverse society work for everybody and not just for some people because if you have a society where the wages are being driven down, people will say hang on a minute, it doesn’t seem like that vision is working for me.

FI: Is there anyone from those parties here who wants to follow up?  There are, they’re being shy.   Okay, are you happy with that answer.  

ADAM: Yes, thank you.

FI: Okay, let’s move on to a question from social media, from Facebook, from Kevin Mahey, how will you ensure tax incurred in the UK gets paid in the UK and goes to those who need it most?

ED MILIBAND: Look, this is a really important question that Kevin asks and there’s nothing I think that annoys people more than tax avoidance by big companies.  Now I think a couple of things, first of all we have got to act internationally because that’s the best way of clamping down on this but also we have got to be willing to act on our own.  There are other countries like Denmark and others who do a much better job of actually clamping down on tax avoidance by big firms.  Now this is in the news at the moment because yesterday the Chairman of Boots started telling people how to vote in the UK general election.  Well it turns out that the Chairman of Boots lives in Monaco and is actually avoiding his taxes.  I have just got to say to you, I don't think people in Britain are going to take kindly to being lectured by somebody who is avoiding his taxes on how they should be voting in the UK general election and we have now got this unholy alliance between the Conservative party and people like him who are actually saying that the country can’t change.  I think we can change the country and I think part of my job is to say we are going to stand up to these powerful forces who aren’t paying their taxes, who are avoiding their taxes because frankly they have a responsibility.   We talk a lot about responsibility in our society, I think responsibility goes from top to bottom in our country.  How can we say to people on benefits and others, you should be responsible when some of the top people, some of the most powerful people in our country are avoiding their taxes and not doing the right thing?  So Mr Pessina who has been trying to lecture us what we should be doing in this country, frankly I think he should be paying his taxes.

FI: Does anyone want to come back on that?  Quite a statement there, James, yes?

JAMES: Are you stating categorically that corporations, economic elites will be paying tax in the UK like Amazon and Google?

ED MILIBAND: Absolutely, we’ve got to deal with this, we’ve got to deal with this.  It’s what they call this profit shifting so they shift profits, you have all heard of it by now where they shift profits around the world to avoid paying them in this country and to sort of, if you like, put them in countries where there are much lower tax rates.  This is something the world has got to get to grips with and by the way, there’s a really important point in this James, which is this is about businesses, this is about decent businesses in this country, small businesses, large businesses who are doing the right thing, the vast majority are doing the right thing and frankly they are as narked as we are about the fact that there are some people and some businesses who are not doing the right thing and we’ve got to clamp down on it.

FI: Molly, you’ve got a point.

MOLLY: Do we not already have systems in place to make sure that they do pay their taxes in the right way?

ED MILIBAND:  It’s not happening, Molly.  You know, the actual tax gap between what companies actually should be paying and is being paid is just going up and up and up under this government and we’ve got to clamp down on it.

MOLLY: But how, why do you think it’s not being done properly?

ED MILIBAND: Well look, I think because there’s been a view – and this goes to the heart of this election – there’s been a view that when powerful people or powerful companies say this is the way it should be, that’s what we should accept and I just don’t agree with that.  As leader of the Labour party I took on Rupert Murdoch over phone hacking, I took on the energy companies over their prices because I actually think you need a Prime Minister who will actually stand up and be counted on behalf of ordinary people in this country – good to use the line, no pun intended.  So I think that is a big change and that’s a big issue at stake in this election.  

MAN: Don’t you think that will deter large international companies coming to the UK and recruiting and setting up businesses in the UK?

ED MILIBAND: Well that’s what they say, that’s what the banks used to say.  Think about the financial crash and I’ve taken our responsibility because we didn’t regulate the banks enough in government, the banks said don’t regulate us because if you regulate us we’ll leave the country and we won’t be here.  Well actually it turned out a bit more regulation would have been quite a good thing and it would have prevented what we are seeing now in our country.  I don’t buy it frankly, I think there are lots and lots of reasons for people to invest in Britain and to be in Britain and there are lots, as I say, of really decent businesses in our country – big, big names who also say to me, hang on a minute, we pay our taxes, we’re on the high street, we’re doing the right thing, why are these other people not doing the right thing as well?  I think it’s a pro-business argument and frankly people in my constituency are paying the price of the financial crisis, I don’t want to see a society where those at the top are just getting away with it.  I don't think we can allow it anymore.  

FI: Convinced by that?  

MAN: Thank you.

FI: Okay, next question again from Facebook.  How do you seriously expect Scotland, the spiritual home and heartland of your party, to remain behind you after standing shoulder to shoulder with the Tories, how can we trust Labour to do right by Scotland.  That’s from Sean James Cosgrove.

ED MILIBAND: Well Sean is asking an important question.  Everybody will know that last year we had the independence debate in Scotland, by 55 to 45 Scotland decided to stay in the United Kingdom, I’m very pleased that it did.  Now there are a number of parties that wanted Scotland to stay in the United Kingdom including the Conservatives, Labour, the Liberal Democrats but this year there is a different choice and what I’d say to Sean and anybody watching this in Scotland and voting in Scotland, is there is a choice at this election between a Labour government and a Conservative government, it will either be me as Prime Minister or David Cameron, that’s what people are saying including people in Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon the leader of the SNP.  I think people in Scotland want change, they want a different way forward for the country and I think what we are offering Scotland is actually some things that will make a real difference like a bank bonus tax to put our young people back to work, like a mansion tax on our most expensive homes which will help fund the NHS including in Scotland, like greater fairness in our society so I understand why Sean – I don't know whether he was a yes voter in that referendum campaign, I know why he feels what he does and why he says what he says, what I’d say to Sean is that there is a big choice at this election between a Labour government and a Tory government and I have a huge set of differences with David Cameron about the way the country should be run.  

FI: I think James has got the next question actually, we’re going to push on with James’s question if you don’t mind.  

JAMES: Just to move on to a question about yourself, outside of politics what experience do you have, what life experience do you have to associate and indicate that you should be the one to represent the people of Britain?

ED MILIBAND: Well there are a number of things which I think I hope are relevant to this.  I was obviously an economic advisor in the Treasury and I think that’s important.  I think that’s important because the economy and how we change our economy is at the heart of the country.   I’ve taught, I taught at Harvard University, I actually taught around government and economics and I think that actually one of things that it did for me being able to teach was actually the ability to be able I hope to listen and engage with people about what their issues are and what they are interested in.  I also go back to this, which is what politics is about because I think this is the big, this is a really important issue.  Why am I in politics, you might wonder?  Because I think it makes a difference to our country and I mentioned earlier my parents, the background and the history they had which was fleeing persecution – and that’s why Stand Up and Be Counted is so important by the way – if you said to my mum who is 80 now, if you said to her that politics doesn’t matter, she’d say don’t be ridiculous.  Her dad was killed by the Nazis, she had to flee to Britain.  Fortunately we’re not dealing with those issues but the reason I say that to you, James, is that I was brought up by my parents to think you have a duty to leave the world a better place than you found it.  With the experience they had they said to me, look you can’t just ignore the world, you can’t just ignore injustice in the world, you’ve actually got to deal with it so that explains why I am in politics and some of the experience I’ve had.

FI: Happy with that answer, James?

JAMES: I personally think that there’s this perhaps dejection in politics because of the political paradigm, not just with politics because we are all speaking about politics ourselves in our social groups.  I think one of the issues is that me myself, I feel like I have more in common with perhaps people who represent my views but are not in politics.  For example, I have only just met the people around me today and I feel like I have got more in common with them than perhaps I do with David Cameron and I think that is the issue.

ED MILIBAND: I think I have got more in common with you than David Cameron as well but look, I think you are making an important point about this.  I sometimes say that politics is too important to be left to politicians and in a way that is a slightly odd thing for a politician to say but the reason I say that is because it is people that change things.  I’ll give you one very brief example if I can, take lesbian and gay rights.  The biggest change I’ve seen since I was growing up, since I was your age, is the change in the rights for lesbian and gay people.  That didn’t happen because nice politicians said we want it to happen.  Sure Tony Blair was important and his government was important but it was because people said we’ve got to have change.  Take the argument about tax avoidance, let’s be honest about it, it’s being led by people and not by government and so I think your point in a way is right.  In the world we live in, people are less interested in one size fits all philosophies, do you know what I mean?  So you have different views on different issues, you’ve got to make a judgment then about who is going to best represent what you want to see as the government but I think being engaged in politics and demanding change is absolutely crucial and it’s not just me that needs to do that.  

WOMAN: I just wanted to pick up on what you were saying about young people being able to engage and it follows on from that question nicely.  Parties present their manifestos and I don't think at any point they do it in a way that is suitable for young people.  Has your party ever thought about creating youth friendly manifestos so that we can actually start to understand what’s going on?

ED MILIBAND: That’s a really important question.  We are going to have a young people’s manifesto.  Now I launched that process a couple of weeks ago, you should go to the Labour website to look at how you can get engaged with that.  I think it is incredibly important that we have a manifesto that does reflect the wishes of young people.  Let me make one other point and then come back, we are going to give the vote to 16 and 17 year olds.  Now some people might be in favour of that and some people might be against it but why do I think it’s important?  There are one and a half million 16 and 17 year olds, take the EMA for example, it was abolished in one sentence of a budget speech and I think that George Osborne wouldn’t have done that if actually he thought 16 and 17 year olds can vote but it also about trust in young people.  I think we want to hear the voices of young people more in our politics but you come back to me and say what you think we should be doing that we’re not.

WOMAN: I just think that what you stand for as a party, and it goes for all the parties, should be broadcast in simple points.  We should know exactly what you stand for and that should be done by social media and online in loads of different ways.

ED MILIBAND: Agree.

FI: Okay, we’re going to move on to Mabi.

MABI: As Prime Minister how would you engage with the vast majority of peaceful patriotic British Muslims to tackle the extremist ideology of ISIS and will you start to heed the advice of British Muslims that our foreign policy is a factor in the radicalisation of young people and will you reconsider Britain in the international stage with the Muslim world? [Applause]

ED MILIBAND: This is a really important question.  Let me say just a couple of things, first of all about what we should be doing here at home and secondly what we should be doing internationally.  In terms of what we should be doing here at home, I think what we know about radicalisation of young people the best thing we can do is prevent it happening and not deal with it after it happens and what I want to see a lot more of is engaging with young Muslims, community groups and others.  There is a programme called Prevent, now that’s at the moment led by the police and I think it should be actually much more about community groups and saying how can we prevent radicalisation which we all share. The second thing I’d say to you is this, look on foreign policy I have changed our position. I think the war in Iraq was a mistake and I’ve said that, right …

MABI: So would you agree that foreign policy is a factor in the radicalisation, yes or no?

ED MILIBAND: I think it is being used, I think it is being used to say to people that somehow they should take a different view or take an extremist view but I’ve got to say to you, think about ISIL, right.  ISIL is killing Muslims all over the world, they are not indiscriminate about who they kill, they kill Muslims, they kill Christians, they kill Yazibis, they kill people without any religion so I think, I can see how it is exploited and the last thing I’d say to you is this, you said in your question the vast majority of Muslims abhor the ideology.  I think that is absolutely right and I think one of the things I’ve got to do as a politician and all politicians should be doing is emphasising that point.  Not saying this is a problem for the Muslim community, of course the Muslim community has a responsibility but actually what you’ve seen in relation to the events in Paris for example, the terrible terrorist events, is the Muslim community in Britain speaking out about this issue.  

FI: There was another person behind me who wanted to come in on this.

MAN: Yes, Ed, I just wanted to kind of build on the point that you said that radicalisation is being built up on things that are being said but these things that are being said are being said by the newspapers and the news organisations that you are in charge of, not necessarily regulating but making sure that they are getting the right messages across.

ED MILIBAND: I think if I was in charge of the newspapers I don't think they would be quite writing what they are about me!

MAN: Of course but there is a degree of responsibility around what exactly is it you’re in charge of and in that sense what would you do or say to bring about the change that you want to bring in terms of making sure that people are seen in a more positive light?

FI: Can I just clarify?  You are saying that the media is responsible for this …?

MAN: Not responsible on their own but they definitely play a big part.  If you have got a newspaper which is like, say for the example the Sun and immediately on the front page is plastered Islamophobic comments or headlines and that’s the first thing that you see, it can become a very, very big issue for a huge part of society.

ED MILIBAND: I’d say a couple of things.  First of all I made a joke to you about the newspapers, they sometimes give me a hard time or often given me a hard time and that is actually part of a free society.  It is not for me to say this what the Sun should write or this is what somebody else should write.  I’d say this, look all of us as politicians, journalists and others and I think lots of them recognise this, have a responsibility to talk about these issues in the right way.  By the way, there is one other thing I’d say, let’s speak out against prejudice, against Islamophobia, against anti-Semitism which I know was asked about earlier on, wherever we find it, I think that is the most important principle. [Applause] Because if we speak out about these things and if we say this is wrong and we’re not going to allow it as a society, that is our best insurance.  It goes back to the answer I gave earlier, it is about politicians but it is about all of us as a community speaking out against these thing.  

FI: I think I’m going to push on to Barbara for the next question.

BARBARA: Hello Ed, I just quickly wanted to say I probably wouldn’t have gone to university without EMA so I think that if your party can reaffirm bringing EMA back that would just basically be great for young people.  I know that the Labour party made an announcement last year about bringing back EMA so I was just saying, you know …

ED MILIBAND: We need to look at all of these things, Barbara, but I will say one thing to you though, I can’t at the moment promise to bring it back and I’ll tell you why.  Because we’ve got to make the sums add up and we’ve got to get the deficit down and you know, there is one issue here that I do want to go to about politics and why people are so cynical about politics.  Lots of politicians come along in opposition and basically say I’m going to make a promise to you, on a programme like this, and then I really hope you don’t catch up with me in government and if you do, I’ll run round the corner and hope I can avoid you. I don't think we can do that so we’re going to look at all of these issues but we’ll make promises that we know we can keep on all of these things.  

BARBARA: I just think that if you invest in young people we are going to move on like I have to university and get a degree and contribute to the economy so I think we should stop focusing on the deficit, like everybody has debt, that’s how the capitalist economy works.  I think we should talk more about investing in people.  

ED MILIBAND: Look where I think, Barbara, you are totally right about this is that this government has loaded lots of its plans on deficit reduction on young people – the trebling of the tuition fee, what’s happening to apprenticeships, a whole range of other things.  Lots of young people are saying I’m worried I am going to have a more difficult life than my parents, so that’s why we are so committed for example on a jobs guarantee for young people, why we want a real revolution in vocational education for young people, proper apprenticeships for young people so we say young people who go to university and those who don’t go to university can have a proper opportunity.  There is something else which I think is really important which may come up, which is what’s happening in the private rented sector for young people, housing for young people.   I think so many young people are being really ripped off and we have got to have a better deal for them.  

FI: Let’s go to a question from Clare Pettigrew from Facebook, ‘Do Labour agree with the pension cuts imposed on the public service with most officers working more, paying more and getting back less?’

ED MILIBAND: I think that’s probably about police officers, isn’t it?

FI: It is about police officers, yes.

ED MILIBAND: This is a hard issue, this pensions issue.  So the first thing I’d say is we are all going to have to work longer as a society.  Now this may be kind of bad news in a way but the reality is that we live with an ageing population.  I think that’s a great thing but if you think to yourself, how are we going to support that ageing population, we are going to have work longer.  Now the thing I don’t like about some of the things the government did on this pensions issue was that they didn’t do it with proper dialogue and negotiation and they did it with very short notice for people, so people had been saying I’m about to retire or I’m five years from retirement and then suddenly they’re moving the goal posts.  I can’t make, I am not going to make false promises on this but I think the approach has got to be a principle that says look, we are going to have to work longer as a society but we are going to have to do this in the right way and in a way that is fair.

FI: Sam Townshend, quick question actually.

SAM TOWNSHEND: Following the result of the Greek election, should Britain be looking at alternatives to austerity in times of recession?

ED MILIBAND: You know, Greek people decide who they elect and it is for the British people obviously to decide who they elect.  I think we do have an alternative and here’s the alternative, that the government says that we are less than halfway through the cuts they are going to make so they want to take public spending back to the 1930s as a share of our national income, that was before there was a National Health Service.  Now I think that will do terrible damage to the country.  We’ve got a better plan which is to say let’s have those with the broadest shoulders bearing the greatest burden, so we are going to reverse the millionaires tax cut that David Cameron gave to the richest in society, we will make common sense reductions in spending because I don't think we can say that the deficit isn’t an issue, it is an issue, we’ve got to balance the books but here’s the most important thing.  You may be thinking of the cost of living crisis that so many people are facing, well that’s a really big issue for many people and it is for working people, having less pounds in your pocket so your wages fall.  The reason the government hasn’t met its deficit plan is because they haven’t had that boost in wages that we need so part of our plan is to say let’s run the economy in a different way, let’s have higher wages, higher skills that will actually help pay down the deficit.  So I think ours is a much more balanced sensible plan.  

FI: Will, I’m sorry we’ve run out of time but you’ll get the first go on the Facebook Q&A that’s coming up.  Sorry about that but it’s only half an hour we’ve got.  That’s it for this session, Ed Miliband thank you very much.  Later we’ll be joined by the political leaders of the Lib Dems and the Conservatives and if you still have questions for Mr Miliband he will be answering those in a live Facebook Q&A as soon as he comes off set.  Thank you, thanks Mr Miliband.

ED MILIBAND: Thanks very much, cheers.