Sunday with Niall Paterson Interview with Mark Regev Israel Ambassador to the UK

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SUNDAY WITH NIALL PATERSON, SKY NEWS

NIALL PATERSON: The Arab League has become the latest organisation to condemn President’s Trump’s decision to recognise Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. It of course follows three days of unrest in the region. Israel’s Ambassador to the UK is Mark Regev and he is with me now, Ambassador many thanks for being with us.

MARK REGEV: Good morning.

NP: Is it fair to say from your perspective there is a sensation of about time? We have heard previous US Presidents calling for this, we know that the Senate has voted in favour of it, Donald Trump has been the man brave enough to do it.

MARK REGEV: I think there is a welcoming of this decision in Jerusalem, I think we see it as the right decision and as you say correctly, we officially declared Israel (sic) our capital in 1949 and we say about time.

NP: Still, in what way does President Trump’s decision to recognise Jerusalem as Israel’s de jure capital, it is of course the de facto capital, in what way does that make peace in the Middle East more likely?

MARK REGEV: it’s a just decision and I think it helps make peace more likely because it says to the extremists on the other side that your dangerous fantasies that somehow that the Jews will be thrown out of Jerusalem or the Jews have no national rights in Jerusalem, have no right to a capital, it helps to put to bed those sorts of fantasies that makes peace impossible.

NP: But it has emboldened amongst others the Iranians, one would expect to see an increase in radicalisation in the region, you would accept that?

MARK REGEV: No, but it is actually clear, who are the most vocal opponents of this decision by the Americans? It is those who oppose peace and those who oppose reconciliation because I think those people who are serious about peace know that there is no peace, there is no possible peace agreement where Israel doesn’t have Jerusalem as its capital.

NP: So who, aside from the Israeli government, aside from President Trump’s supporters and indeed some on the other side of the house in US politics, who aside from them have welcomed this move?

MARK REGEV: We have seen different countries respond but you are right, the overwhelming consensus has been critical and I think that’s because there is an accepted foreign policy paradigm that some people are very wedded to but I think it is important that if we want to move forward in peace that we should sometimes look outside the box. What has the President done here? He has basically corrected an historic injustice because there is a norm on this planet that every country gets to choose its own capital and that’s always respected but it wasn’t in the case of Israel and so I think he has done the right thing.

NP: Would you be happy then if for example the Russians chose to move their capital to Sebastopol in the Crimea?

MARK REGEV: There have been countless examples of where countries have changed their capitals, the Turks changed their capital in 1923, the Chinese in ’49, the Germans more recently and in every case, every case, the international community respects the decision of a sovereign state to choose its own capital. Up until now only Israel has been the exception.

NP: So in your mind does the American recognition of Jerusalem include East Jerusalem then?

MARK REGEV: I let the American speak for themselves. What we know is that Jerusalem has been the capital of the Jewish people for centuries going back 3000 years, it’s been the capital of the State of Israel for some 70 years.

NP: But you know why I mentioned East Jerusalem there, because there is no international consensus that it is indeed part of the Israeli state.

MARK REGEV: Even if one says that what is over the ’67 lines has to be open for negotiations, even if one says that, Jerusalem was the capital of the modern state of Israel since 1949, there is no reason not to recognise Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

NP: So how do we push the peace process forward now? Certainly it is not going to be the Americans in the driving seat, the Arab League said this, the US have withdrawn themselves as a sponsor or broker of any possible two state solution so how do we drive this process forward now given the anger and the enmity there is?

MARK REGEV: I think once the dust settles, I think we’ll get back to peace and I wouldn’t be surprised if we see some movement in 2018 because over the last few months and even a bit longer, we have seen a warming of the relationship between Israel and our Arab neighbours and …

NP: And what do you think the result of this will be in terms of that warming? It has led to an almost immediate cooling of whatever progress you’ve made.

MARK REGEV: I disagree. In fact if you look at where most of the criticism is coming from it is coming from groups like Hamas and Hezbollah that don’t want to see peace, that don’t want to see reconciliation. I believe that we can move forward in peace and of course peace will mean also recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

NP: Talk to me a little bit more about why this for you, for Benjamin Netanyahu and for others, why this is such a significant decision by the Americans? As I alluded to earlier, Jerusalem is the de facto capital of Israel – not the de jure capital – you’ve got the Knesset, you’ve got all the government buildings there, why was there the need to go this step forward and risk inflaming tensions in a part of the world known for them?

MARK REGEV: Precisely in order to put to bed that dangerous fantasy that somehow the Jews can be thrown out of Jerusalem. Let’s be clear, Jerusalem and the Jewish people, Jerusalem and Jewish heritage and Jewish culture have been intertwined for almost 3000 years. This is part of our existence as a Jewish people and those who want to divorce Israel from the Jewish people are making a mistake, it’s historically incorrect and peace cannot be based on a fallacy.

NP: A moment ago you said when the dust has settled but we are seeing pictures this morning of another protest, we’ve had three days of protest and going back to my point about the Iranians, in what way will this not embolden their already pretty aggressive negotiating strategy in the Middle East?

MARK REGEV: The extremists don’t need an excuse to propagate violence and to propagate hatred. The Iranians were doing that before this decision by the Americans and they will do it afterwards, Hamas and Hezbollah exactly the same. What is the interesting thing to watch I believe is the Arab states. As I say, with them once the dust has been left to settle I am very hopeful that we will see a renewed, a more energetic Israel-Arab peace process in the coming year.

NP: Ambassador, many thanks for being with us, we do appreciate it.

MARK REGEV: Thanks for having me.